WRAL Sports Fan

RE: Duke leads ACC in graduation study; UNC 4th and N.C. State 12th

This IS an old study, BTW, and in the current studies of progress toward graduation, State is at the top of the ACC.

Transfers really hurt State in that old study, and yes, transfers did count against us, regardless of what anyone says.  

- Posted by Juice E Fruit

I'm not saying your claim is not true, but I need a little more than your word. Let's see some documentation that State is at the top of the ACC. Prove it, and I'll be the first to congratulate State.

By "anyone" I assume you mean the NCAA, since they are the ones who said transfers in good academic standing do not count against your GSR. If the transfers counted against you, they were failing when they left. Perhaps you are confusing the GSR with the APR.

RE: Duke leads ACC in graduation study; UNC 4th and N.C. State 12th

^ That's a little better. Most points are valid. But you can't resist your little bit of hate-mongering, can you? Don't try for one minute to claim that Carolina has more VERY questionable students than State, unless you can prove it (which you can't). And I defy you to find one post claiming superior prowess for Carolina players.

Again, you make a claim for which you have no proof when you say that "almost none" of the players could get admitted as regular students. It's probably true that many of them could not, but quit making claims you can't support.

Finally, you're delusional if you think Chris Washburn could have ever been admitted to play basketball at Carolina. 

- Posted by uncfan1

This IS a smack talk board.
So, let me get to your points:
Chris Washburn: Yes, he could have gotten into UNC, and WOULD HAVE, if he hadn't gone to State. That fact has been known for YEARS. Come on....UNC got J.R. Reid, Rasheed (still can't read) Wallace, Julius Peppers, Dwight Jones, Lawrence Taylor, and many, many other "geniuses" in over the years. They'd have gotten Wash in, too.

As far as most players not being able to get admitted as regular students....do I even NEED to prove that? You KNOW that's a fact. You're simply arguing for the sake of arguing if you say different. Look at UNC, State and Duke's average SAT score and GPA for incoming freshmen. Now, how many basketball or football players are even CLOSE to those standards? Very few, especially the basketball players.
I know it, and you know it.

I can easily prove UNC has more VERY questionable "students" on their football/basketball teams than State. Easy: Dwight Jones. Look up his saga of trying to qualify for college. State has nobody, and I mean NOBODY, who had that much trouble getting qualified to the NCAA minimums. And he's not the only one at UNC, by far.
State doesn't have many, if any, kids like this.

Now, as far as what the other folks are saying about it being "easier to stay in school at UNC".....for athletes, that's VERY true.

Case in point, since you always want 'proof': African-American Studies. Requires no science. Science is hard for most students, agreed? Even State's PE degree requires a science. Again, UNC's "athlete degree" requires NO science.
That's just one example of how UNC 'plays the game' better than State does.

Duke does it by having a 3 year degree program. They require only 90hrs to graduate, and let the 'students' take courses at NC Central and transfer them in.

UNC has also adopted a 3 year degree...pretty much for the kid they just signed, Harrison Barnes.  

- Posted by Juice E Fruit

1 - Please feel free to produce any trace of evidence that any of those Carolina players you named scored less than 500 on their SATs. Washburn's were proven in court. Also, feel free to cite any proof of a department head claiming that grades were altered in order to keep any of the Carolina players eligible. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't, but with all the athlete-hating, pinko-liberal commies that supposedly dominate the faculty at Carolina, you'd think there would be one or two to make the claim.

2 - Yes, you do need to prove a claim of "most". All of us can be sold on "some", even "many". Averages can distort facts. Case in point, the situation where Dean Smith defended Reid by letting it "slip" that Reid and Williams had a higher combined average on their SATs than Ferry and Laettner. Suppose Reid had 450 (a la Washburn), Williams had 1200, and the dookies both had 800. That would give the Carolina pair the higher average, but it would distort the facts.

3 - You think one example is "easily" proving your argument. Get real, clown! Your pitiful arguments of "by far", "not many, and "if any" don't qualify as proof. How many recruits does State have in prep school right now - 4? 6? 10?

4 - If it's "very true", it should be easy to prove. Go ahead, we'll wait. Cite all the "fluff" programs you want. State has them too (I believe you call one of yours Africana Studies. And there's always Parks, Recreation & Tourism for your more advanced students). And, no, I won't agree that science is hard for most (there's that word you love to throw around with no proof) students. I agree that it's hard for a lot of students. I know many, though, to whom science was a snap, while they struggled in subjects like English and History.

5 - Cite any proof you have of a 3-year degree program being implemented for Barnes. I'm pretty sure it still requires 120 hours, or more, to graduate from UNC.

RE: Duke leads ACC in graduation study; UNC 4th and N.C. State 12th

This IS an old study, BTW, and in the current studies of progress toward graduation, State is at the top of the ACC.

Transfers really hurt State in that old study, and yes, transfers did count against us, regardless of what anyone says.

Washburn

One more thing, regarding Washburn:

That only got a lot of press because of the N&O-led witch hunt against Jim Valvano and NC State.
That this witch hunt took place isn't even debatable. It's an absolute, iron-clad FACT.
You can't tell me that Washburn was any dumber than Lawrence Taylor. But L.T. had better guidance, I'll say.

After the whole mess was over, the N&O brass came and apologized to the State administration, for the witch hunt that then-editor Claude Sitton led against Valvano and Poulton.
He had said in a meeting that "two scalps he wanted on his wall before he retired were V and Poulton".

People like to kid State fans about being paranoid over media bias, but it EXISTS. Claude Sitton once told Norm Sloan, the N&O "is a Carolina paper and always will be", when Sloan complained about some anti-State article.

My point is, had Washburn gone to UNC, nobody would have ever said a word about his academics. Ever. I'm not sure the N&O would have written an expose' article about UNC if someone from UNC walked in the door and handed them the proof...not back then.

RE: Duke leads ACC in graduation study; UNC 4th and N.C. State 12th

^ That's a little better. Most points are valid. But you can't resist your little bit of hate-mongering, can you? Don't try for one minute to claim that Carolina has more VERY questionable students than State, unless you can prove it (which you can't). And I defy you to find one post claiming superior prowess for Carolina players.

Again, you make a claim for which you have no proof when you say that "almost none" of the players could get admitted as regular students. It's probably true that many of them could not, but quit making claims you can't support.

Finally, you're delusional if you think Chris Washburn could have ever been admitted to play basketball at Carolina. 

- Posted by uncfan1

This IS a smack talk board.
So, let me get to your points:
Chris Washburn: Yes, he could have gotten into UNC, and WOULD HAVE, if he hadn't gone to State. That fact has been known for YEARS. Come on....UNC got J.R. Reid, Rasheed (still can't read) Wallace, Julius Peppers, Dwight Jones, Lawrence Taylor, and many, many other "geniuses" in over the years. They'd have gotten Wash in, too.

As far as most players not being able to get admitted as regular students....do I even NEED to prove that? You KNOW that's a fact. You're simply arguing for the sake of arguing if you say different. Look at UNC, State and Duke's average SAT score and GPA for incoming freshmen. Now, how many basketball or football players are even CLOSE to those standards? Very few, especially the basketball players.
I know it, and you know it.

I can easily prove UNC has more VERY questionable "students" on their football/basketball teams than State. Easy: Dwight Jones. Look up his saga of trying to qualify for college. State has nobody, and I mean NOBODY, who had that much trouble getting qualified to the NCAA minimums. And he's not the only one at UNC, by far.
State doesn't have many, if any, kids like this.

Now, as far as what the other folks are saying about it being "easier to stay in school at UNC".....for athletes, that's VERY true.

Case in point, since you always want 'proof': African-American Studies. Requires no science. Science is hard for most students, agreed? Even State's PE degree requires a science. Again, UNC's "athlete degree" requires NO science.
That's just one example of how UNC 'plays the game' better than State does.

Duke does it by having a 3 year degree program. They require only 90hrs to graduate, and let the 'students' take courses at NC Central and transfer them in.

UNC has also adopted a 3 year degree...pretty much for the kid they just signed, Harrison Barnes.