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Are Duke and Carolina joined at the hip?

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  • PacknoPride Nov 24, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    holt is a State fan.

  • Ken D. Nov 24, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    I would be stunned if Maryland actually pays anything close to that number. But I doubt the league would even acknowledge publicly that they are negotiating with the Terps while it works its way through the courts. They will still play in the ACC next season, so there is time to sort it out.

    I have no idea where the money will go, and I doubt the league does either, at this point. They've never done this before. I wouldn't be surprised to see exit fees becoming sort of a currency for conferences until everything settles down. That is, the B1G pays the lion's share of Maryland's exit fee to the ACC, which uses it to pay the exit fee of whoever replaces them, and so on down the food chain.

    It's all speculative at this point. At the end of the day, when the music stops, somebody's going to be left without a chair. Maybe they'll get the money as a consolation prize. :)

  • uncsuckz Nov 23, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Ken you seem to have a high degree of knowledge about this topic. tell me, will Md be able to leverage down that 50 mil exit fee? and where does this money go? is it split among the conf teams or held in the league office?

  • uncsuckz Nov 23, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    unc's academic side? ROFLMAO. you cannot be serious dude. don't EVEN include unc and Duke in the same breath where academics are concerned. Sheesh. you damm hole fans still don't get it.

  • Ken D. Nov 23, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    To put that $20 million into perspective, NC State's entire athletic budget is $55 million. FSU, with $87 million in projected revenues, expects to be $3 million in the red.

  • Ken D. Nov 23, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    And I would guess that the Big Four conferences are maneuvering to keep the lion's share of the playoff swag - $500 million per year - for themselves. That could boost the difference to $20 million+. Not exactly chump change.

  • hovis Nov 23, 2012
    All Star

    The last I saw based on current contracts just holding steady for the B1G the difference was right at 15.8 million. It would not fluctuate much and if it did the only way the difference would dramatically shrink would be if the acc somehow renegotiated a larger contract. This, however, would not change the large sums that you would get right now from the big 10 which are a sure thing. Big 10 is a safe bet and a easy one to make.

  • Ken D. Nov 23, 2012
    Sports Legend

    I would like to see an authoritative analysis of exactly how much a move from the ACC to the B1G would entail. At this moment, a major unknown is how much will ESPN pay for the playoff and related bowls, and how will that huge pie be divided. Also unknown is how much per team will The next B1G TV contract be worth.

    If I had to guess, when all that shakes out, an ACC team moving to the B1G could stand to pick up as much as $15 million more per year, depending on which teams change conferences. And if the ACC were to be substantially depleted by those moves, to the point where their current ESPN deal were no longer enforceable, that number could climb considerably.

    I don't think any ACC school, given the opportunity to go to the B1G, could afford to turn it down out of loyalty to either the conference or to any one rival.

  • sportznut628 Nov 22, 2012
    Sports Legend

    Louisville and Ky are bitter rivals in separate conferences the rivalry will live on

  • hovis Nov 22, 2012
    All Star

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    Yes, I made that abandoning the NCAA point in detail on an earlier thread. I agree. And like I said to the fans that they are basing this new revenue on, a rivalry is whoever ESPN says are rivals. Think about that today while you watch Texas play tcu on a day it used to be Texas and Texas a&m. Then think about how ESPN will sell Manziel as the Heisman next year and tell you that Alabama and A&M are the "revenge rivalry" or something.

  • PacknoPride Nov 22, 2012
    Sports Legend

    With 4 super conferences, those conferences could set up their own athletic association for football and basketball and do away with the rules of the NCAA. Then they don't have to tippy toe around trying to follow a big book of rules they don't want to follow. They set up their own playoff system and tv contracts and the fall behinders are left with what was once the NCAA.
    New rivalries can be made. No one can say that the ACC is any symbolance of what it was when there were 8 teams.

  • hovis Nov 22, 2012
    All Star

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    Maybe once upon a time that rivalry=viewers theory was right. No longer. Check the numbers of that are being discussed here. Maybe in the long run it will hurt them. But for now it is not even close.
    I first looked at this expansion thing as most people on here do. I wish I had been right. But here is the truth.

    Rivalries matter to alumni, rams club members(or equivalent), and students. Those revenue sources at their best, even at larger SEC schools never generated anything like the numbers that we talk about now for these contracts. At most schools after title 9 they barely even paid the bills.
    Our college sports have been bought by the drunken, gambling, espn no allegiance fans. They have no real ties to any team, not even regionally. They watch nfl games on Sunday. And if espn tells them that Ohio state and unc is a better rivalry then duke unc they will not care. The end. They are now paying the bills.

    Our options don't really matter anymore. This is all being sold to the highest bidder and we have been outbid. The decisions are not being made by athletic departments, people. These decisions are being made by pencil pushers making budgets.

  • Ken D. Nov 22, 2012
    Sports Legend

    Who will draw more eyeballs - UNC vs Duke or Alabama vs Michigan? That's not just because Duke and Carolina aren't good teams. You can say the same about Oregon vs Oregon State which are very good. Those matchups will draw a small regional audience. For the same effort and production cost, a big intersectional game draws a lot more viewers.

  • Jacob Tongues Anus Ewwww Nov 22, 2012
    Pro

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    Who knows. The one thing I do know is that rivalries = rankings = viewers = $TVcontracts. This superconference thing will end up biting them in the rear within 5 years or so due to fewer rivalries. I know I'll probably watch less.

  • Ken D. Nov 22, 2012
    Sports Legend

    If that were to happen, I do believe the floodgates would open wide, and the ACC would be swept away. I think that Wake and Duke would be the only original members of the league left without a major conference home for football. In that event, their best option would be to at least be in a good basketball league, which is the Big East. Instead of the Big Four from NC being in the same conference, they would be in three different ones.

    Would they still play each other every year/

  • Ken D. Nov 22, 2012
    Sports Legend

    I started this thread thinking the answer to the question is yes - neither would go to another conference without the other. I've come full circle, and now I believe it could happen. The only way it could happen is if Carolina were to get invited to the B1G but not Duke. And that could happen. If I were Jim Delaney, my top two targets to bring the B1G to 16 would be UNC and Virginia (unless ND were to beg them for entry). That would give them the state universities of NC, VA, MD, NJ, PA, OH, MI, IN, IL, IA, WI, MN, and NE. Then, I think their appetite would be satisfied.

  • PacknoPride Nov 21, 2012
    Sports Legend

    I don't think they are joined anymore than Kansas and Missouri. There no such thing as joined at the hip anymore. Just making the right decision so your school doesn't go under thinking your rivalry is more important than surviving. I expect 4 super conferences and the ACC ain't going to be one of them.

  • larrys080 Nov 21, 2012
    Sports Legend

    "Unless Duke can have a truly respectable football program, I don't see a lot of conferences looking at them too hard honestly. However, if they continue to improve under Cutcliffe and become a good football team, I can see hem going to what will then be the Big 16." ~ Tizu

    I couldn't agree more! Unfortunately for Duke this will be the best season IMO for a very long time.

  • larrys080 Nov 21, 2012
    Sports Legend

    UNC is in the drivers seat! Every conference wants them and would gladly pay their exit fee from the ACC. As far as Duke goes they better hope UNC makes them a package deal. As one sports writer wrote today, "Duke, Wake and BC will be left out like they were on the island of misfit toys when all is said and done."

    Duke has belittled football for almost 3 decades now and I think it might just bite them in the azz! At the end of the day they have nothing to offer!

  • kato_karma.v3 Nov 21, 2012
    Sports Legend

    Lehigh and dook...

    FOREVER linked.

  • kmor2012 Nov 21, 2012
    Sports Legend

    no, Duke can beat a great Butler team Cheater HIll gets blown out the water by a bad one......

  • Tizu Nov 21, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    I assume you also believe the UNC / Duke rivalry didn't exist before Coach K, either.
    Not sure why I wasted my time responding.

    Anyhow, Ken, That's a very good question. It's really hard to say. I can't imagine them not being in the same conference, but I think if push came to shove they would split. The school's, in my opinion, would have to have an agreement to play each other in all sports though to keep the rivalry alive. Now if Duke were to go to the B1G, now that Maryland is there (who I can say I might despise more than UNC), that would definitely add the fire to that fairly new rivalry (in basketball anyway).

    Are they joined at the hip? In some ways, I think they are when it relates to sports programs. Overall though, I think if one was invited and the other wasn't whoever was invited would go and the other would try to find another conference comparable to move to unless the ACC gets its act together, then they may stay put.

    Unless Duke can have a truly respectable football program, I don't see a lot of conferences looking at them too hard honestly. However, if they continue to improve under Cutcliffe and become a good football team, I can see hem going to what will then be the Big 16.

  • Wolfpackalypse Now Nov 21, 2012
    All Star

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    Vic Bubas was a good NCSU player. He did coach Art Heyman, but that's mainly because Frank McGuire was a stupid a$&hole. Bucky Waters also played for NCSU, so maybe I was a bit harsh on the pre-Kryzewski, no-championship-winning Blue Devils by comparing them to Elon. I suppose it would be more accurate to say before K, Duke was about like Penn or Cornell.

  • still heelman1973 Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Another wusspacker who knows nothing. It's a common theme around here.

  • MoDuke v2 is gone Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Vic Bubas says "what'?

  • Wolfpackalypse Now Nov 20, 2012
    All Star

    UNC-Duke has only been a real rivalry since Coach K took the reigns. Before K, Duke was about like Elon.

  • 903 mens national championships Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

    Yes, Duke and UNC are joined at the hip.

  • kmor2012 Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    well Duke is the last team to win a championship from the triangle, i guess we do have the best program then right?

  • kato_karma.v3 Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

    With dook's football program trending upward, the SoCon is giving them a serious look.

  • kmor2012 Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

    With all the cheating and scandals going on UNC already has 1 foot in the door for the SEC.

  • weakened back Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

    i don't think you'll see any other big names leave their conferences. i think all the fball heavy weights are cemented in their conferences. the nxt thing to happen is schools will start to negotiate their cuts out of bcs bowls and ncaa bball tourney.

  • Ken D. Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

    If they weren't in the same conference, could they maintain their rivalry (see Clemson - South Carolina, and FSU - Florida) or would they drift apart? Would both basketball programs be as good without the conference rivalry?

  • lazydawg58 Nov 20, 2012
    Pro

    Since football is driving this thing I think it is entirely possible that Duke may find itself left behind after all of this. The basketball program is one of the best in the country but is it, along with Duke's outstanding academic status, enough to get it an invite to the Big10? I think there is a strong argument that it isn't. They could end up in an ACC with football teams more at their level. I can't see UNC-CH passing up an invitation to the Big10 because Duke doesn't get to go too. I would think the Big10 would want the other team to come from a different TV market. UVA or GT are as academically strong as Duke, stronger in football, have larger alumni bases, and offer valuable additional territory.

  • seedofdoubt Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

    Duke is extremely comfortable in the ACC. As a well-endowed private University with a very heafty tuition fee just to attend, there isn't a need to seek out new money from their sports programs by leaving the conference. UNC is state funded and needs the sports revenue to stay afloat without pricing themselves out of the educational market. With the financial stresses the government (both state and federal) are under, those funding dollars will dwindle. UNC may not have a choice in the matter. Duke, as a one sport school (it is what it is), is just fine where they are. So no! They are not joined at the hip nor will they go trotting off together, hand-in-hand, to greener pastures.

  • DooksucksV3 Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

    I think UNC would head to the SEC, Dook to the Big 10 in basketball and Conference USA in everything else.

  • Das Thorpedo Nov 20, 2012
    Veteran

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    First, with all of UNC's academic improprieties of late I think they'd be a long shot at the Big Ten. They don't look kindly on that kind of stuff. Second, it's all about the $$$. Traditional rivalries don't mean much these days. If one gets an invite and the other doesn't, it'll be sayonara.

  • 35 - 7 ROFL Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

    I think if push comes to shove, both would go the way of the B1G Ten. The picture of four super conferences is aligning and, personally, I just think Duke and UNC's academic side pushes them towards the B1G Ten rather than the SEC.. I found this article that lays it out pretty well. Obviously, the way everything falls will depend on the very question you posed. What will become of UNC and Duke.

    http://outkickthecoverage.com/the-sec-and-big-ten-will-have-16-members.php

  • The Texas Butler Nov 20, 2012
    Veteran

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    Roy will run from Duke the first chance he gets even if it means UNC goes to the Sunbelt Conference if that's still around. They could get a fresh CLEAN start there.

  • Ken D. Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

    If the B1G Ten were to come calling, would one of these schools leave the ACC without the other? Does it work both ways? That is, would one of them be more willing to split up than the other if the B1G Ten only wanted one of them?

    I'd prefer serious comments, without the usual trolling. Is this question unthinkable, or did I just think it?

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