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New Year, same old problems - short bench, no big men....

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  • dukefanv12 Nov 13, 2013
    Pro

    And thus starts a new year for Duke BBall. We think we're ok, since we scrimmage against ourselves, or take on an undersized Davidson, and play just about everyone. Now we played a real game, and the same old warts pop out. Granted Parker is a beast, and can play anywhere, and Hood is not far behind, but that is it. Maybe there is an under-development of the 15 to 21 feet of Plumblee left, maybe there is a lack of recruiting of a real big man. We'll do fine until we meet another big team in the Tourney. The posts here will be a delusional as every other year that we're great, but this isn't going to be 'our year'....

  • 903 Hook em banned Nov 13, 2013
    Sports Legend

    If it's national title or fail for you, you've only been happy with the results 4 years in the last 33.

    Maybe you should just be a fan of whoever's number 1 every year instead of being a "dukefan"...

  • dukefanv12 Nov 13, 2013
    Pro

    Nowhere did I say that it was an NT or fail.

    And thanks for avoiding the issue. Pls, only REAL Duke Fans need comment.

  • 903 Hook em banned Nov 13, 2013
    Sports Legend

    UNC's had better big men than Duke the last 9 games...How many of those games did they win?

  • seedofdoubt Nov 13, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    2 games and you have the GALL to define the entire season. Kansas won that game in the last 4 minutes, not because of who had bigs or a deep bench. Kansas hit overdrive in their transition and Duke had the wheels fall off at the same time. Duke have their fair share of tall players and Duke has a good, solid bench. Your conclusions are premature and based on supposition. Claiming your negativity as honesty and calling other posters as "delusional" looks suspiciously like the ruse of a pretender. I question your Duke Fan status.

  • MoDukev3 Nov 13, 2013
    Pro

    I could have sworn that Duke won a national title with 6'9" Boozer playing center and played for another national title with 6'9" Brand at center. As always I could be wrong but don't ever bet on it.

  • Buck you Nov 13, 2013
    All Star

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    There is no Boozer or brand type inside player on this team........ Fact.

  • TarheelState1 Nov 13, 2013
    Bench Warmer

    Lolololololoololol! Poor dook!

  • kato_karma2.8 Nov 13, 2013
    Pro

    Back on topic.

    As long as Wohojahowsky is on the bench, it remains short.

  • JacobSummers the genius Nov 13, 2013
    Pro

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    Awwwww snap!

  • abcershatemebuttheir wivesluvme1 Nov 13, 2013
    Rookie

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    LOL!

  • dukefanv12 Nov 14, 2013
    Pro

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    Our two best players have to be our scorers (Cook, Thonrton,Jefferson, Sulaimon can't carry that load), defend the teams other power players, and rebound. Just too much to ask against another team with many bigs. We'll win the ACC, and be a top ranked team, as we usually are, but it doesn't dismiss, or negate that we don't have a Boozer or Brand presence, and teams are going to attempt to exploit that weakness.

    As for the bench, my opinion, is that they should have played significant minutes in the Davidson game - as much as the starters. Develop them when he can... K just chooses not to. Another weakness.

    You called this Gall. It isn't. Having the ability to objectively look at, and provide unemotional constructive comments about the team, does not dismiss the ability to be a true fan. I think it makes me MORE a fan than the rest who can't. (yes, read this as YOU)

    BTW (can't resist)... how big is Lutz?

  • Tizu Nov 14, 2013
    Sports Legend

    I understand where you're coming from, and you make a valid argument. The difference is, Duke does not actually have a short bench, they are pretty deep. The problem is, those that are on the bench (when they do get in the game) don't show their worth while in the game. That, and I'm with you on this one, Coach K doesn't play them as much as he should. How they went the entire game against Kansas without playing Dawkins is baffling. He should have at least gotten 10 minutes in that contest. Maybe it would have made a difference, maybe it wouldn't have...but we (the fans / almuni) want to know what we have on the bench, and we cannot make that determination by never seeing them play. Matt Jones played what, 2-3 minutes? Had no chance to get in the game before he was pulled. Semi didn't play, either.

    With all those shooters on the bench, it's highly, highly unlikely all of them will be cold at the same time. Either way, Coach K knows what he's doing, and I trust his judgement over my own as I don't get the pleasure of seeing the players practice every day.

  • The truth about MERCER! Nov 14, 2013
    Veteran

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    Duke does not actually have a short bench, they are pretty deep. The problem is, those that are on the bench (when they do get in the game) don't show their worth while in the game

    Isn't that the definition of a short bench? Players who cannot be productive when call on to play?

  • roylovescanada Nov 14, 2013
    Pro

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    Good Ole Hans.....instead of trolling State boards today he has made his way back to Duke boards.

  • dukefanv12 Nov 14, 2013
    Pro

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    Sounds like a self fulfilling prophecy, or a catch 22.

  • 903 Hook em banned Nov 14, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    They have some players on the bench with potential to be contributors. But Coach K won't ever play a player unless they earn playing time in practice. Plumlee and Murphy got in the game the other night but as soon as they made mistakes, they were done for the night with the exception of Murphy coming back in after Jabari fouled out and the game was out of reach. It's still a long season with lots of time for the rotation to change.

  • kato_karma2.8 Nov 14, 2013
    Pro

    Sounds like a short bench.

  • Ken D. Nov 14, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    I don't know that I've ever seen "ability to provide objective analysis about a team" as one of the qualities of a "true fan". Be that as it may, I'm sure your abilities would be invaluable to AD Kevin White. He needs somebody to mentor his young, inexperienced coach as he learns his craft. I'm sure he'd appreciate your insights into how K could better utilize his bench.

  • Tizu Nov 14, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    My point, for those not intellectually challenged, was that they don't get to play long enough to prove their worth. Practice is one thing, in game is another. They will never get the experience needed to play more in games if they don't get to...play in games.

    But I wouldn't expect some of you to be able to pick up on that. Sorry for not being clear enough for the Kindergartner's.

  • Ken D. Nov 14, 2013
    Sports Legend

    One reason coaches schedule what are sometimes derisively called "cupcakes" is to provide opportunities for their young players to get on the court for more than mop up duty. Clearly, Tuesday's game didn't qualify as such an opportunity.

    Duke used basically an 8 man rotation against Davidson. Of the four players who didn't play as much, only Ojeleye is new to the system. The others (Dawkins, Murphy and Plumlee) have had time to show what they can do, and I can only assume that the coaches feel there is something lacking. Maybe it's effort, maybe it's conditioning, maybe it's health. Maybe they just aren't as good as the 8 players who got 90% of the minutes. Whatever it is, I trust the Duke staff to get it right. This isn't their first rodeo.

  • 903 Hook em banned Nov 14, 2013
    Sports Legend

    The time the bench players get in practice, going against the starting five, is when they have the chance to develop and prove they are capable of playing against real opponents like Kansas. Coach K has always said he doesn't waste a minute of game time on players that haven't proven themselves in practice. He would rather 'fine tune' the unit that is definitely proven than to play someone that hadn't earned that playing time in practice...

  • Tizu Nov 14, 2013
    Sports Legend

    "You're talking about practice man....practice..."

  • dukefanv12 Nov 14, 2013
    Pro

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    And that results in two things. a short bench, and the undevelopment of players...

    which then results in either, if the 'choosen' players play at the top level every game, they have a good season, and when they don't... we have Lehigh.

    And I'd really like to avoid another Lehigh....

  • roylovescanada Nov 14, 2013
    Pro

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    good ole Hans.....wow.

  • 903 Hook em banned Nov 14, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    The only thing I care about, after the Kansas game Tuesday, is finding a rotation that's good enough to score more than them if we play them again in April. It's more than likely that that rotation won't include Murphy or Plumlee unless they can prove themselves in practice and earn their way into that rotation.

  • dukefanv12 Nov 14, 2013
    Pro

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    If we are truly there, and players like Murphy and Plumblee don't come to fruition, we're not going to be able to score more points than Kansas next time, and we don't have the team to beat MSU or UK in March either.

    There is no one else to improve the rotation.

    Yet to see what other teams develop from the next set, but they all are going to improve, and we're stuck with .... Oh... a short bench, and no big men.....

  • 903 Hook em banned Nov 14, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    nope. the hope is that the current rotation improves at a faster rate than the other contenders and duke will be in a position to beat anyone in the country on any given night come april...

  • kato_karma2.8 Nov 14, 2013
    Pro

    ...and just because Wohojahowsky played like someone @ 5' 2" and never posted anyone up in his life does not mean he is incapable of coaching-up those front-court fellows.

  • 903 Hook em banned Nov 14, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    Wojo coached two Plumlees onto current NBA rosters...

    oh, and Wojo coaches the guards. Capel coaches the big men...

  • Prof. Swahili Nov 14, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    Good post from a true fan who is genuinely concerned. this is why coach k has never enjoyed the high level of success of Dean or Roy.

  • 903 Hook em banned Nov 14, 2013
    Sports Legend

    Hard to believe any UNC fan is upset about a coach's rotations... I mean, I can't remember them ever second-guessing Roy's rotations...

  • seedofdoubt Nov 14, 2013
    Sports Legend

    My point, for those not intellectually challenged, was that they don't get to play long enough to prove their worth. Practice is one thing, in game is another. They will never get the experience needed to play more in games if they don't get to...play in games.

    Good point, Tizu. Game play IS very different than practice. Have to ask...why did Duke decide to drive to the basket the last 2 minutes instead of looking for the 3? Not asking anyone to be K, but it did seem odd.

  • dukefanv12 Nov 14, 2013
    Pro

    Seed / Tizu... we can lead them to water...

  • heelgrad1978 Nov 14, 2013
    All Star

    As a UNC man i have to give it to Duke and say you have an awesome team and hands down the best coach around. As far as this season it is very early and i think you guys will be just fine and have a great chance at number 5. You have a very young team and it will take all season to grow. Good Luck, i am not looking forward to playing you guys this year.

  • roylovescanada Nov 14, 2013
    Pro

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    maybe because of all the fouls being called....get to the line. But we shot those horrible.

  • 903 Hook em banned Nov 14, 2013
    Sports Legend

    It's still early. So far one game against Davidson and one game against KU. I don't have any problem with the way minutes were given out against KU because KU was a winnable game only if the very best players exceeded or matched their expected number of minutes.

    As for Davidson,

    http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400502661

    12 guys played. Maybe K has changed his stubborn ways about playing bench players in real game situations...

  • ELDIABLOS Nov 14, 2013
    Towel Boy

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    we make 60-70% of the shots at the line and we win the game...

  • dukefanv12 Nov 14, 2013
    Pro

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    You never do "Get it"... In an excellent opportunity to see how ALL of his players are developing in a GAME situation, he plays 8-12 a total of 36 minutes, or the average of 7 minutes each. It should have been more like 20 minutes each.

    So it doesn't look like K has changed his stubborn ways.

  • seedofdoubt Nov 14, 2013
    Sports Legend

    It sure would be a hoot to have the starters ride the pine this Friday and watch the rest of the team compete for a win. Never happen, of course.

  • 903 Hook em banned Nov 14, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    In an excellent opportunity to see how ALL of his players are developing in a GAME situation, he plays 8-12 a total of 36 minutes, or the average of 7 minutes each. It should have been more like 20 minutes each.

    The same way McKillop did?

  • The truth about MERCER! Nov 14, 2013
    Veteran

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    They shot 68.8% (22-32).

  • dukefanv12 Nov 15, 2013
    Pro

    "Those watching Tuesday’s Champions Classic noticed that the Blue Devils were using 6-8 Jabari Parker as their center, an indication of their lack of quality depth inside" - Roger Kuznia - Sporting News

  • Brackettville2.0 Nov 15, 2013
    Veteran

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    I wouldn't jump off the bandwagon because Duke had a bad night at the line against a legit final 4 contender. Every team has areas to improve in. Duke is no different. Duke could have won that game if a couple of small things change. It is not like Duke got manhandled. This is not the same ole Duke team. Give me a break dude.

  • Brackettville2.0 Nov 15, 2013
    Veteran

    You have to look at the big picture and assess the talent around Jabari. Duke will be just fine. They will get plenty of points in the paint and rebounds.

  • seedofdoubt Nov 15, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    So...Amile, Josh, and Marshall account for 38 minutes in that game and would usually be in the 5 spot but Jabari was playing center? Seems odd, does it not? Sure looked like Jabari was out around the 3 point line quite a lot. He was defending Ellis at different points in the game, perhaps that was what Kuznia was alluding to.

  • JacobSummers the genius Nov 15, 2013
    Pro

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    LOL. What happened to the world beaters dook team you incessantly bragged about. Now they're just "fine". Bwahahahaha

  • JacobSummers the genius Nov 15, 2013
    Pro

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    Reported

  • Brackettville2.0 Nov 15, 2013
    Veteran

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    Who said they were world beaters? Who said they would go undefeated?
    LOL
    bwaa ha a a a a a aha a a a a a

  • dukefanv12 Nov 15, 2013
    Pro

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    Jefferson and Hairston are NOT, but any stretch of the imagination, a significant center presence... Plumblee has the size, but has, in my opinion, been underdeveloped while at Duke, and doesn't play like a center with presence.

  • dukefanv12 Nov 15, 2013
    Pro

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    Against the likes of lessor opponets, sure. 30+ wins.... Book it.

    But aren't we in this to win the whole thing? I want NT's, not Lehigh's.....

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