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  • My Name is Harr Dec 8, 2012
    Veteran

    Good year for ECU

  • cooperitis Nov 19, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    View quoted thread



    I like your comments on ECU's strength of schedule and the stats on our competition's win/loss record of the wins we have had this year. I think it gives a true reflection of what ECU's record truely represents.

    However, I don't agree that CUSA will get better next year. If anything, I see it getting worse next year with the teams leaving and the ones that will be replacing them. They are all pretty much FCS (Div. II) type teams moving up to the next level. If ECU remains in CUSA, I don't see things quite as dissmal as you stated. I see things pretty much on par with where we are at currently -- beating up on the lesser competion of CUSA and getting creamed by the good teams outside the conference we continue to schedule. And yes, heaven forbid if we should start losing to these "Div. I want-a- bees" that will then occupy CUSA.

    I am still hopeful that Ruff and his staff will be able to recruit and coach us to the next level and get us out of this mediocre program exsistance. But as you said and has been stated several times before -- we are going to have to beat some good teams as well as win the games against lesser competion in order to break this current pattern. And our upcoming bowl game will be a good test to measure and see if we are moving in the right direction.

    Also, a quick comment on the upcoming game with Marshall. I think (regardless of their record) it will be another good test for Ruff and ECU. This will be a very dangerous "trap" game for us. Marshall has a great deal to play for in that they will need that win to become bowl eligible. And I also remember several times over the last few years that Marshall has had our number and actually messed us up at the end of the season. I remember they have either kept us from playing for the CUSA Championship or even becoming bowl eligible ourself on more than one ocassion.

  • tcoutouzis Nov 18, 2012
    Sports Legend

    I can come off as half empty, but I am defintely a half full kind of guy. The positive is that we are winning against the losers. Heaven forbid we fall to the teams we have beaten this year.

    Our strength of schedule this year is 119. the teams we have defeated are a combined 15-52. It is the worst I have seen in all my years as a Pirate. The best we can do is 8-4 in the regular season with this SOS. I know that we can do better than that. My other gripe is how we have been dismantled by .500 teams and better.

    When CUSA gets better next year I think that we are going to be in trouble. My problem is that I am a planner so I look at the long term rather than the short term success. I don't think Ruff will be putting out 8-4 record when CUSA gets better or if we get into the Big East. I don't think we will go bowling. We will become the doormat. I hope that I am wrong, but if we can't beat good teams or at least be competitive with them meaning that we are in the game to the very end, then I see this scenario playing out in the next couple of years and we will be looking again for another coach.

    You measure the strength of your team by how you play against good competition, not the bad. So far, we are 0-4 against good competition losing 48-10, 27-6, 40-20 and the infamous 56-28.

    I agree with what was said above that both the optimist and the pessimist have valid arguments. Time will tell who is right.

  • lazydawg58 Nov 18, 2012
    Pro

    Now if we can win on Friday!

  • cooperitis Nov 18, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    View quoted thread


    Ok, I'll take the "glass half full" approach for a change. I do think it's great that we have a winning record and we're going to a bowl game for a change. And I guess things could easily be a lot worse -- we could be losing games against a bunch of losers.

    But just imagine of how much greater a season we'd be having if we could actually beat somebody good. I mean, after UCF lost yesterday -- we could be actually sitting on top of our division and playing for the CUSA Championship and going to a real decent bowl game. That's the difference between being able to win just one game against a good team and our glass not only being half full -- but all the way to the brim. How much better would recruiting and bowl scouting be if we were in that position?

    But, I certainly agree with you -- winning games (no matter who it's against) can and will build confidence. After a year or two of "confidence building", who knows, we might even be able to beat a good team. Is that positive enough?

  • hovis Nov 18, 2012
    All Star

    Btw, here are Tulanes team fbs standings. And please keep in mind that these stats were made against some of the worst teams in the fbs.

    2012 OVERALL FBS RANKINGS
    PASSING YARDS
    273.9
    37th
    Overall
    RUSHING YARDS
    39.3 123rd Overall POINTS FOR 21.8 102nd Overall POINTS AGAINST 38.3 118th Overall Just saying, nothing wrong with reserving judgement.

  • hovis Nov 18, 2012
    All Star

    View quoted thread

    I think the glass half full view is fine. However the glass half empty people have a point too. I think everyone can agree with the half full thing if ecu can get a win against any team from a bcs conference in whatever bowl they go to. Correctly, the glass half empty people are trying to appraise if ecu is capable of such a thing and it is hard to tell. Not to dismiss the recent wins but it is hard to appraise the team based on these wins as they have been at the expense of what are, bar none, some of the very worst teams in all of the fbs. But a win is a win and much better than a loss. I think the half empty people are just awaiting proof that they can believe in.

  • lazydawg58 Nov 18, 2012
    Pro

    Well we are 7-4 with two games to go. Few people, save super fans that post on internet boards and/or call in to radio shows, pay that much attention to the records of the teams they beat. There has to be something to be said for winning games period! Fans want to pull for winners, recruits want to go to schools with winning records, bowls want to sign teams with winning records. Teams start believing in themselves and even winning some games against teams with better talent and/or that they aren't suppose to beat, when they have winning records. Like I said earlier, the glass is half full. :)

  • Ken D. Nov 17, 2012
    Sports Legend

    I'm not sure why Duke isn't clamoring to get ECU on their schedule. When the games are in Durham, they would have a rare sellout. In fact, all four ACC teams would likely sell out against the Pirates.

  • hovis Nov 17, 2012
    All Star

    View quoted thread

    ...and it is worth watching.

  • tcoutouzis Nov 17, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    We need to schedule all bottom feeder BCS schools. Let's put South Florida, Boston College, Indiana and Kansas on the schedule. Sadly I am not sure if we would win those games.

    In all sincerity I like playing good BCS teams as we can only get better by playing competition that is above us. I would rather play Wake, Duke, NCSU and UNC every year because it will save immensely on our travel expenditures and we can put the money we save to other areas that it is needed.

  • hovis Nov 17, 2012
    All Star

    View quoted thread

    True, that is one of the weakest conferences in the land. But the record in the recent history is ... Terrible. Like with a zero in the win column. Cusa has to improve their play, not just their schedule.

  • lazydawg58 Nov 17, 2012
    Pro

    The schedule ACC teams comment was a joke, but with a touch of truth to it. If we are going to schedule BCS schools our chances of winning are a lot greater against ACC schools than they are against SEC or any of the other conferences.

  • Ken D. Nov 17, 2012
    Sports Legend

    Well, they can certainly afford to be generous. Whereas the current BCS pie is worth about $150MM per year, the amount being bandied about for the the new games (currently 6 in total, including the 2 semis and the final) is in the neighborhood of $500MM. You can get a lot of nice slices out of that pie.

  • cooperitis Nov 17, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    View quoted thread


    That would be true Ken for the Top 4 BCS Bowls --which will then be the 4 "playoff system" bowls towards the national championship. And i don't ever see ECU being a part of that regardless of being undefeated against lower level competition.

    However, as i understand it from what I have seen and read -- the remaining 2 other BCS-type bowl games will "guarentee" at least one team from those 5 conferences beginning in 2014 that is the highest ranked team amoungst them to play in one of those two extra BCS-type $ bowl games. There is no stipulation on that ranking or a certain number to qualify. The example given was: if Marshall was ranked 37th and that was somehow the highest ranking amoung all teams from those 5 conferences -- Marshall would go to that bowl game. Now, that situation is highly unlikely, but explains how it will work at that time in 2014. And you're correct in thinking that whoever will be the highest ranked team will most likely need to be undfeated or with one loss at the most. But, it will at least be possible for ECU or any other team from those 5 small conferences to get a slice of "the big pie". That's why the BCS commissioners put that into the newly reformed BCS bowl system to try and be fair to "the little guy" to have a share of the big $.

  • Ken D. Nov 17, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    The way things shape up now, the only way a team from one of those five conferences gets invited to a major bowl is to go undefeated. One loss, even to a very good team, will be enough to keep you out.

  • hovis Nov 17, 2012
    All Star

    View quoted thread

    I can see how that could be true. However, there would still need to be a serious improvement in team talent within CUSAor we will just be posting on threads about how "they were robbed" or something like that. For a cusa team to be selected they would have needed to post at least some wins of middling quality against someone. I do hope that ECU can do all this though.

  • cooperitis Nov 17, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    That's correct "hovis" -- the ECU guy was mainly speaking about the future, not currently. The Big East is losing their BCS statis and will be on the same playing level as those other conferences as far as selecting (one) highest ranked team from those 5 conferences to play in one of the 6 BCS-type bowl games starting in 2014. Therefore at that time, ECU would just need to be the highest ranked team amoung those 5 conferences to be invited to the "big $ bowl game". And that ECU would have a much better chance of doing that within CUSA versus playing in the Big East. However, before that can happen, ECU will still have to win some of their "big boy" out of conference games. Maybe even with Ruff and his staff -- we can start to build towards that level of competition within the next couple of years. I can only hope so.

  • hovis Nov 16, 2012
    All Star

    View quoted thread

    cusa? Not even close to the big east this year. As a conference they have had a few quality wins. So has the MTN west. I think in the future this could be true if the bad teams in the big east get worse because certain teams rise to the top of the other conferences and thus recruit on the same level with them. Does he mean just because they are going to lose their bcs affiliation? That has not happened yet but is sure to make a difference when it does. But considered on the same level right now? Umm...no. Not to anyone with the Internet that can look up quality conference wins and losses. That guy is nuts if he means currently.
    I agree that until ECU is more competitive they can build a better program in their current conference than they could in the big east or otherwise.

  • cooperitis Nov 16, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    View quoted thread


    I agree that total wins might be most impressive to bowl scouts and can be more attainable by scheduling FCS schools outside the conference. ACC schools could possibly help in recruiting -- only if we could win some of those games.

    However, to get to the next level of respectability, we're going to have to play some games with the "big boys". But that's only going to help us if we can compete and actually win some of them. I just don't think we're capible of that right now and may never get to that level with Ruff and current staff. So, maybe winning against our "cream puff" conference and lesser schools outside CUSA may be our best bet for now and or near future.

    There was some guy (?) from ECU athletics on "The Logan Zone" last night from Greenville that had a certain spin on things. He stated that ECU was in much better shape now in CUSA than they would be in the Big East. That's because the BIg East is now considered on the same level as CUSA, Sunbelt, Mnt West and MAC. And ECU can certainly obtain more wins in CUSA than they could possibly in the Big East. I guess that kind of goes along with what we're talking about here. Total number of wins out weighs quality losses.

  • Pack pride lead investigator Nov 15, 2012
    Veteran

    Seems wise to me. Can't argue with any of that.

  • Ken D. Nov 15, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    Well, I was being facetious with my last comment, but only a little. I think they should try to schedule ACC teams, but for geographic reasons, not because it will pad their won-loss record. I also think they should do what most other FBS teams do and include a regional FCS team on their schedule. App State makes sense, but so do Richmond and William & Mary.

    There is nothing ECU can do out of conference that will make their overall schedule impressive enough to make any difference in what type of bowl they may get invited to. So you might as well at least schedule winnable games that have local fan interest. I think they should try to schedule all four NC teams from the ACC at least once every four years. They don't need to be scheduling teams like West Virginia, because at the end of the day, if you are in C-USA, bowls will care more about how many games you won than who you played.

  • hovis Nov 15, 2012
    All Star

    View quoted thread

    Who should they play in your opinion?

  • Ken D. Nov 15, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    They may want to pick on somebody else. In the last three years they are only 1-5 against ACC teams. That's the only thing keeping the ACC's non-conference record respectable.

  • lazydawg58 Nov 14, 2012
    Pro

    Well ECU hasn't faired well in their OOC games against the BCS conferences. I think what the pirates need to do is try to schedule as many games as they can aginst ACC teams. I think if they keep plugging away they might be able to do better than 500 against them. :)

  • VT1994Hokie Nov 13, 2012
    Sports Legend

    I have to hand it ECU. They have done the job in their Conference.

  • TsKaMF Nov 12, 2012
    Sports Legend

    The big least or cusa has never been "tough". ezwho?

  • Ken D. Nov 12, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    I'll give you Logan. But Holtz didn't impress me that much. He never lost fewer than 5 games in any season at ECU. He had the advantage of being compared most immediately with the Thompson era. Prior to 2005, when the ACC's raid of the Big East led to that league's raid on C-USA (which is apparently still going on) ECU played in a tougher conference. The league has been in decline ever since, and ECU is going down with it. I'm not sure any coach can overcome that.

  • cooperitis Nov 12, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    I just saw this afternoon from watching "College Football Live" that there will be a whole new BCS Bowl system in place starting with the 2014 season. It includes 6 total bowls -- the 4 "playoff" bowls towards the national championship, but also includes 2 additional BCS-type or major $ bowls to be played New Year's eve or day. The big news is that the two additional bowls WILL INCLUDE (one team)the highest ranked team from the 5 smaller tier conferences: CUSA, Sunbelt, BIg East, MAC and one other ? This is huge for the "little guy" conferences and allows one team for sure to be apart of the "big boy" bowl and $ without the current stipulations and exclusions. Therefore, I see it even more important in the near future for ECU to be able to have a respectable and possibly ranked football program.

    It goes back to my previous thread and what "tcoutouzis" said about just being mediocre. I can't speak for all ECU fans but personally, I have much higher aspirations and expectations for ECU football than to be just satisfied with a winning record against bad CUSA (Division I want-a-bees) teams and possibly a CUSA Championship. And it's going to take ECU winning some of the "big boy" games and our bowl games to get us to that next level of respectability. From what I've seen the last 3 years with Ruff -- I'm just not convinced we are headed in that direction. However, winning out this season and WINNING our bowl game against a decent team will be a good start in the right direction.

  • tcoutouzis Nov 12, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    I agree with you lazydawg. I am not trying to be negative, but realistic.

    With the exception of App St. who I don't count because they don't play division one football and have 25 less scholarships then we do:

    The teams we have beaten this year are 11-39. No team has a winning record. The closest team would be Houston at 4-6.

    Our two remaining teams have a combined 6-14 record as both have losing records. You would think that we would win these, but I have seen us blow it before.

    Here is my problem with the 8-4 record. It is not a reflection of how good we really are. We have had some good teams that went 8-4 or 7-5 under Logan and Skip. The thing is we were competitive with the good teams even if we lost. You would get an occasional blow out, but that was fairly rare. We are getting raked over the coals by teams that are .500 or better. They aren't just beating us, they are destroying us. I need to look back, but I think we have been blown out twice as much in these 3 years under Ruff than the 10 years combined we had under Logan. I count dozens of missed tackles a game, many of them arm tackles. I see no fundamentals or discipline in our players, which is a reflection on our coaching. Our secondary is the worst that I have seen since John Thompson.

    I agree with Cooper, we have regressed from Logan and Holtz. We have the talent in place, just not a good staff. Although I love Connors and Doll and hope if there is a change that those guys can stay.

    We are just mediocre at best and it is hard to celebrate an 8-4 season when all we did is beat a bunch of cream puffs. This is the easiest schedule I remember ever in ECU history. I actually think we could have easily finished the season at 11-1 if we had a good staff. Ruff is a good man, but being a good man is only part of the equation. He is missing the strategic half as a head coach.

  • cooperitis Nov 12, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    I agree that our current situation is much more positive than negative. However, I am concerned that there is far more to our overall football program longterm than our current or future win/loss record. Just look at who we have beat and who we weren't even competitive against. We have won the games against .500 teams or worse. Teams of any decent caliber or record have embarrassed us. I feel that the level of quality teams in CUSA has dropped (especially next year) and ECU should win or at least be able to compete each and every year for the conference Championship. However, even that's simply not going to get it done if we want to break the Top 25 barrier or even be considered a "honorable mention" like Tulsa and UCF are currently. We are going to have to win some of the "big boy" games we continue to schedule outside the conference. And currently, I don't see ECU's program improving to that level as when Holtz and Logan were coaching. I feel our talent level is the same and will remain the same as it always has been. It has been the coaching ability of the previously mentioned coaches that enabled us to beat ranked teams and take care of business in CUSA and rise to the level of a Top 25 program. I feel this coming bowl game will determine a great deal of what our program can be under Ruff. Is ECU going to be able to compete with a decent team (whoever is in the bowl will have a winning record)and actually win the game -- or are we going to get embarrased on national TV like we did last time in DC. I will reserve my final judgement following that final bowl game. I certainly have hope that Ruff's team can finally rise above the mediocracy we have been seeing over the last couple of years and prove evident that we are moving in the right direction with this program. Because if it doesn't happen, like it or not, we are stuck with Ruff at least for the next 2 years.

  • abbott134 Nov 11, 2012
    Pro

    Agreed

  • lazydawg58 Nov 11, 2012
    Pro

    With two games left it is entirely possible the the Pirates could end up 8-4 or 7-5. I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, but if that happens it is kind of hard to be nearly as negative as some seem to want to be about the state of ECU football. Of course one can point out that ECU has been inconsistant, has had defensive lapses, that the level of football in C-USA is significantly below that of the even the ACC etc. etc. But regardless of all that a 7 or 8 win season is something a heck of a lot of other schools would love to see. I think the glass is half full.

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