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So if the Big Ten raids the ACC & Big East?

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  • Ken D. Nov 21, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    You're right. Wouldn't it be a hoot if Texas went to the PAC along with Oklahoma, OK State and TCU? That would certainly cool FSU and Clemson's jets.

  • lazydawg58 Nov 21, 2012
    Pro

    Yes I think it is highly likely that this isn't even close to being over, but I was just throwing out another possibility. Through the years I've come to realize that no matter what seems logical or inevitable there are always forces at work that can very well lead to very different outcomes. If one school doesn't do what seems to us be the most logical, for whatever reason suddenly everything changes. What if Texas and the PAC reopen negotiations and suddenly the Big12 becomes the weak link? Or Louisville and Cinci go as a package to the Big12? Expect the unexpected. :)

  • hovis Nov 21, 2012
    All Star

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    I appreciate your optimism. This may be possible for the short term but here are the major forces behind all this: Conferences gain money by increasing their "footprint" as far as viewership on tv is concerned no matter who they add as long as they have the requisite viewers available.
    Right now any team not in the big 10, big 12, or sec gets an enormous pay bump to move to these conferences.
    For these two reasons alone it is unlikely that any conference becomes satisfied with their slice of the pie as the moves that they make will increase revenue and the moves that these respective schools make are sure to be to their benefit. I have heard that Boise St. and another team have quietly inquired about re-admittance to the MtnWest as well as BYU seeing what kind of money they could expect if they came in.
    I just cannot find a reason why it would slow down now or until the big conferences are satisfied that they have reached the highest amount of profit that they can achieve.

  • lazydawg58 Nov 20, 2012
    Pro

    Another possibility might be that Boise State and SDSU reconsider and stay in the Mountain, the Big 12 likes their position with only 10 schools to split the pie with and the Big 10 after gaining a presence on the east coast and giving PSU some near neighbors stops. With UCONN (or UofL) and Rutgers leaving and BSU and SDSU not coming the BE survives by adding ECU and ?? and remains the best conference that isn't one of the big five, and the ACC remains a basketball conference that plays football.

  • hovis Nov 20, 2012
    All Star

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    Exactly! Why can't anyone get that on the other threads? It is not how long you are on the plane but who pays for the ticket!

  • Ken D. Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    "look at the teams you will play". I've read where people think Maryland is too far away from most B1G Ten opponents. Miami, FSU and GT aren't? I think the only B1G Ten schools that are farther from Maryland than Miami is are Nebraska (by about 150 miles) and Minnesota (by about 50 miles). There will be six B1G Ten teams in the eastern time zone, and maybe more if they go to 16 teams.

    The geography is more than compensated for by the extra revenue. This was a no brainer for Maryland and Rutgers.

  • hovis Nov 20, 2012
    All Star

    I also keep seeing people who have just read headlines saying things like"look at the teams you will play! Maryland will never make money!" Bs. Outside budgetary sources state that extra income solely from the conference payouts would net Maryland nearly 100million EXTRA dollars by 2020. That is why they did it and why everyone else will too.

  • hovis Nov 20, 2012
    All Star

    That is what I thought too but I did not want to say so because if the junk that people would start filling the thread with. It seems that at least temporarily intelligent issues such as this can be discussed ( for now). In reply to lazy dog, while this seems like a break even or possibly improved situation for the schools left out that could then call themselves the acc that could not be further from the truth. The school in these super conferences will have huge recruiting budgets, vastly superior facilities, greater viewership and exposure, and the list goes on. THEN you will see ESPN and the super conferences team up and demand that players get paid thus increasing the divide and flat out making (in combination w/title9) football flat out unprofitable for the other schools.

  • Ken D. Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    If Duke and UNC are split up, I think Duke gets left out entirely. They don't help anybody as far as football is concerned. Wake Forest could suffer the same fate. If those two schools hadn't found a home in the ACC 60 years ago, nobody would be chasing after them today. The Deacons should be quaking in their boots, because they don't have a partner to help them get into the big leagues.

  • lazydawg58 Nov 20, 2012
    Pro

    If all this happens and the ACC falls apart isn't it logical that the teams left behind will take the brand name ACC and reform? Isn't this what the Southern Conference has done several times over the years? Perhaps the new additions decide to go their own way. So what would the new ACC look like?

  • hovis Nov 20, 2012
    All Star

    Miami is in a huge metropolitan area and a large amount of their fanbase is from out of state (northern). I think all of this could shake out in a lot of different directions as far as who goes where but whether it is now or this year I have no doubt that the big three conferences will consume all these schools. I think it is possible that both Duke and Unc go to the same conference but it is probably a shade more likely that they are split up by conferences since the real principle of this thing is expanded coverage for the new conference. But I am certain with the amounts of money at play every school is scurrying to go somewhere if they are wanted. No doubt.

  • Ken D. Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

    For reasons I don't entirely understand, Miami seems to be something of a media favorite. They deliver TV ratings, and not just in the Miami area. And they would expand the geographical footprint of the SEC more than any other candidate.

  • lazydawg58 Nov 20, 2012
    Pro

    It seems to me that the most attractive schools for the SEC (from a TV market standpoint) would be NC State and VT. Are Duke and UNC-CH really joined at the hip? I wonder. I would think the Big10 would want UNC-CH and GT. The Big12 takes FSU and Clemson. Aren't the private schools less coveted? That leaves the private schools like Miami, WF, Duke, Syracuse, Boston C. kind of on the outside looking in, along with public schools like UVA and Pitt. This is all very confusing but it seems to me that the bottom line would be if we go to four Super conferences of 16, there will be enough high quality schools to make up the "lesser" conferences that ECU will be in a much better situation conference wise then they are now. More so in terms of geography, rivalries, and level of play.

  • Ken D. Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

    There are so many possibilities here it's impossible to predict what will happen. As is often the case, what Notre Dame decides to do will ripple across the whole landscape. All ECU can do is sit and wait for the big dogs to sort out their pecking order and then try to make the best deal they can.

    By making their move with Maryland and Rutgers, the B1G Ten has decided they are going to drive this bus. They don't have many more good options, and I think they are trying to force Notre Dame's hand. Despite the shabby treatment they have received from the Irish in the past, football is big business, and Notre Dame is good for business. My guess is that the B1G Ten will try to use negotiations with Duke and UNC as leverage to get ND to get on board the bus. If they do, then I think Pitt rounds out the league at 16 teams.

  • Ken D. Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    I would not be surprised if UNC and Duke, afraid of getting left out of a major conference, move quickly to seek admission to the B1G Ten, which is now a close second to the ACC academically. If that were to happen, I could see the floodgates opening. That would put State and Wake in danger of getting left out.

    There are two spots open in the SEC. They have said they don't want Clemson or FSU. Georgia might not be thrilled to have Tech in their division. But both Miami and Va Tech could be attractive from both a geographic and competitive standpoint.

    At this point, I don't see anything stopping FSU and Clemson from jumping to the Big XII, taking them to 12 teams. Would they stop there, which would still leave West Virginia as the "Alaska of the Big XII"? Or would they fill in the geographic gap? Georgia Tech is available, so I think that would be their first choice. Louisville is available, and eager. Notre Dame would get invited, but would probably decline. That leaves two more spots to get to 16. Cincinnati and NC State? Fills in a lot of geography.

  • tcoutouzis Nov 20, 2012
    Sports Legend

    The ACC will not collapse. The Big East will remain alive. CUSA will probably die as the MWC and Big East raid it.

    Let's be real. UConn will get invited to the ACC and Louisville will be picked up by the Big 12. I think that Cincy is out of luck and is stuck. Villanova will have second thoughts about moving up and Navy will probably jump ship.

  • hovis Nov 20, 2012
    All Star

    GT i doubt would slip through the cracks because of their proximity to Charlotte and the fact that they are in Atlanta but the rest, maybe so. And not that bad, huh? Duke or any other NC team could possibly be left in out the rain too if they are not proactive in where how fast they abandon ship. There are too many schools in NC for all of them to go to these conferences so speed could be an issue.

  • lazydawg58 Nov 19, 2012
    Pro

    So if/when the ACC and Big East self-destruct we all revert back to what I've been saying/wishing for a while now, compact conferences after the superconferences. So what could it be? Wake Forest, ECU, GT(?), Miami, UCF, USF, UVA(?), UNC-C, Furman, ASU, Georgia Southern, Old Dominion

  • Ken D. Nov 19, 2012
    Sports Legend

    I said a while back that I doubted they would ever play a down in the Big east. The MWC turned down two other schools, staying at ten, so I believe they thought they would come back.

    The current status of the BCS is to have a six site rotation, followed by the championship game. That is to say, instead of the current 10 teams, there will be 12. One of those will be the highest ranked team from outside the five power conferences. That being the case, Boise doesn't need the Big East to get entry to a major bowl, so why not stay close to home? (The other team is San Diego State, by the way).

    That would bring the BE down to 9 teams, 7 of which were from C-USA. I wouldn't be at all surprised if SMU, Houston and Memphis had second thoughts as well.

  • hovis Nov 19, 2012
    All Star

    Just saw where Boise St and whatever that other school is from out that way headed to the big east have reopened negotiations with mtn west to re-enter the conference! (You just can't make this stuff up!)

  • tcoutouzis Nov 19, 2012
    Sports Legend

    Looks like we will be getting that invite to play all our old CUSA mates and none of the original Big East schools. Our travel budget will be worse than it is now.

  • Ken D. Nov 19, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    What has been going on today seems to me a lot like the bowl selection process before the BCS and all the conference tie-ins. Back then - and it wasn't all that long ago - the bowls would scramble to get their first choice before somebody else got them. I think the sharks are in the water now, circling the ACC, because that's the only conference that has some name schools worth snagging. And three conferences - the B1G Ten, SEC and Big XII - want to get their first choice before somebody else does.

    I don't think that either Maryland or Rutgers were the B1G Ten's first choice. I think they are meant to be the levers to pry somebody else loose. The three predators all have room to add more schools, and each has a vested interest in beating the others to the punch. I think things may move with frightening speed, and at the end of the day both the ACC and the Big East could cease to exist as we know them.

    For ECU, this can only be a good thing. There will be pieces left after the big dogs stop eating, and those pieces are a lot better than the ones the Pirates are currently stuck with.

  • hovis Nov 19, 2012
    All Star

    Scratch all that I said above. With the Houston clause that allows them to decline their contract if certain financial obligations are not met, combined with UConn likely to ACC, Syracuse to big ten, Louisville strong possibility to the Big 12,the big east implosion is likely begun. Unless they land some kind of surprising tv deal in the next week or so they are not even capable of saving the conference as BYU and the other schools that they like will certainly decline the offer. If they cannot get BYU, the replacement schools would be an absolute joke from a conference contract standpoint. Thus, kaboom.
    Then the ACC fuse is lit.

  • hovis Nov 19, 2012
    All Star

    Flat out, I think the Big East is trying to survive through basketball and until ECU basketball achieves something their entrance to the Big East is a long shot. Yes, I know someone going to point out other recently admitted schools and their lack of basketball. They were admitted for different reasons and I just don't think ECU football alone can get them in for all the reasons that have been rehashed over and over. Bright side though, Lebo is doing a good job with the hand that he has been dealt.

  • Ken D. Nov 19, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Assuming one of them were to try, what would his pitch be? Can he say anything Terry Holland hasn't already said to make ECU's case?

  • lazydawg58 Nov 19, 2012
    Pro

    I did hear Logan talking about utilizing political influence to try and get ECU in. I think he was referring to federal officials so it would take Senator Hagan or Senator Burr or possibly a retired senator or congressman working the back channels. I don't know how effective that might be but it would be worth a try. The most prominent ECU graduate politically speaking would be Senator Robert Morgan. He has always been a strong advocate for ECU, (ECU med school) but he is in his mid-eighties now. He's still active but that would be a lot for him to take on. Maybe one or more of our congressmen could take it on, Jones, McEntire?

  • hovis Nov 19, 2012
    All Star

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    None at all.

  • Ken D. Nov 19, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    The Virginia governor had leverage against UVa, which was the deciding vote. What possible leverage could the NC governor have with the Big East?

  • tcoutouzis Nov 18, 2012
    Sports Legend

    We have two schools in front of us if their become openings in the Big East. BYU and Air Force. If they add three, then we may have shot to join.

    We do need the help of our state government like VT did when the Virginia govenor begged to get into the ACC.

  • cooperitis Nov 18, 2012
    Bench Warmer

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    If you ("dawg") were also listening to the Logan Zone about 3-4 weeks ago when i called in at the end to ask about ECU & Big East (he almost blew a gasket) -- he said that it would take much more than just ECU athletics to get involved in that process. It should have a "legislative" pull to it in order to get the "behind the scenes" political deals done that would be needed for that to happen. Logan was very disappointed in then Rep. Bassnight who promised action back several years ago, but never followed through.

  • Ken D. Nov 18, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Don't rule out the possibility that there could be a lot of spots open in the ACC before all is said and done. In fact, both the ACC and Big East could dissolve altogether. Under a scenario I speculated on in the Wolves Den, here are some eastern schools that might be left to form a new conference if the Big Ten, SEC and Big XII all went to 16 teams:

    In the northeast: UConn, Syracuse, UMass, Boston College, Temple, Wake Forest, Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati and Louisville.

    In the south: Southern Florida, Central Florida, UAB, Southern Miss, Memphis.

    ECU could do worse.

  • lazydawg58 Nov 18, 2012
    Pro

    I know that the Big East has always had their reasons for not inviting ECU in. But at this point what other schools would be considered more attractive than the Pirates? At least in football we would give them a full stadium. We are a large, solid university and we aren't a million miles away from the majority of the schools in the conference. There should be two spots opening up UCONN goes to the ACC.

  • cooperitis Nov 18, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    Not sure that ECU would get an invite considering their TV market and region. But I loved the observation about the "new and old CUSA". I guess it may come down to a choice. Does ECU want to be the "king pin" of a bunch of losers (new CUSA-- barely Div. I teams), or do they want to be a "middle of the road" team in a more traditional, respectable and "brand name" conference of the Big East (old CUSA). Unfortunately, I don't think ECU will be the ones doing the choosing.

  • hovis Nov 18, 2012
    All Star

    True, but THAT cusa is better than THIS cusa.

  • Ken D. Nov 18, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    In effect, ECU would just be rejoining C-USA. With Rutgers gone there wouldn't be any charter football members of the Big East left. But there would be 7 former C-USA schools.

  • hovis Nov 18, 2012
    All Star

    It would be of great benefit for ECU to get into the big east. They should try again to do everything that they can right now to make that happen. However this turn of events did not make it any more likely then it ever was.

  • lazydawg58 Nov 18, 2012
    Pro

    Logan said two weeks ago on his Saturday morning show that ECU should do everything in their power is get out of the C-USA and into the Big East. He said that CUSA was killing the Pirates. I was thinking the Big East was on the verge of self-distructing but I don't know much. Is Logan right? Is Rutgers to the Big Ten finally the opportunity for ECU to get an invite? Is it the place for ECU to go? I suppose that even if the Big East is losing it's automatic bid it is still a higher level of football. What do you guys think?

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