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  • hovis Nov 15, 9:09 a.m.
    All Star

    "If it was solely for the sake of competitive football would Vanderbilt choose to be in the... View More

    — Posted by Ken D.

    That is what I am saying. A lot of these schools would be capable of anything if the money was right. And who can blame them?

  • Ken D. Nov 15, 8:35 a.m.
    Sports Legend

    "If it was solely for the sake of competitive football would Vanderbilt choose to be in the SEC? Do you think their fans and boosters really enjoy that or would they rather play Wake Forrest and other academic schools like that week in and week out?"

    Good question. Why are they there? Maybe it's because they feel their alumni want to stay in the same conference as Tennessee. Or maybe it's the $20+ million they get from the SEC to help pay for their field hockey team.

  • hovis Nov 14, 1:47 p.m.
    All Star

    I find it hard to believe that the Big Ten, which ranks second to the ACC in academic prestige,... View More

    — Posted by Ken D.

    Ken. Your 2nd paragraph on the 1st page hit it for me. I truly don't see any school leaving the... View More

    — Posted by Hokies94

    For the record I support every one of the new rules and the things that Ken suggested sound well... View More

    — Posted by Pack pride lead investigator

    I think many of the folks that expressed those sentiments think that a large number of schools... View More

    — Posted by Ken D.

    I do not know how likely any of it is. I do think that it is certainly possible though. Whether or not it will work in the long run I do not know and neither do they.

    But here is another thing. I think that there are plenty of other teams that if given a viable option would go in the complete other direction. They would offer less or no scholarships if everyone else would also. In particular, a lot of the schools not in a current BCS conference. Most of them have administration that is sick of kids in there school that have no business in college.
    They may have a point too. If your team still played most of its conference rivals and rivalry games on the same footing with each other, what would those other schools do matter anyway? If it was solely for the sake of competitive football would Vanderbilt choose to be in the SEC? Do you think their fans and boosters really enjoy that or would they rather play Wake Forrest and other academic schools like that week in and week out?
    As to would other schools join them and sacrifice the competitiveness of their football program? Yes. If the money was right, yes. Did someone mention Vanderbilt awhile ago?
    There are many schools out there that already do just that.
    As far as true national championship, it seems to me the way the sports media works now it would just be whoever ESPN said it was. And if this D League is partly their creation and they put up the contract for it then I can guess who they will put the crown on.

  • Ken D. Nov 14, 10:25 a.m.
    Sports Legend

    I was watching the Ala. LSU game with 90 thousand in attendance. I don't see them or the... View More

    — Posted by ncstateforever

    I find it hard to believe that the Big Ten, which ranks second to the ACC in academic prestige,... View More

    — Posted by Ken D.

    Ken. Your 2nd paragraph on the 1st page hit it for me. I truly don't see any school leaving the... View More

    — Posted by Hokies94

    For the record I support every one of the new rules and the things that Ken suggested sound well... View More

    — Posted by Pack pride lead investigator

    I think many of the folks that expressed those sentiments think that a large number of schools outside their own conferences would go along with them if they left the NCAA. I don't believe that would be the case.

    As for shorter schedules and larger playoffs, the schools who would drive this wouldn't accept fewer home games to have more playoff games. And I don't think there would be enough teams in total to have more than a four team playoff. Let's say you are in a conference whose schools rank near the bottom in the academic prestige category. Those would be the Sunbelt, and now, to an extent, C-USA.

    Do you really want to pull out of the NCAA so you can be dominated by the SEC and Big XII teams who would go with you? Do you think you will somehow get more TV and bowl money than you get now for your willingness to be cannon fodder for Alabama, LSU and Oklahoma? While there are some great teams there, I don't think ESPN would pay as much to televise games that are only relevant in the deep south. Those schools would never be playing for a true "national" championship. And in the long run, I think that would hurt their quality as much as in the short run paying players might help it. Just my opinion.

    Beware of unintended consequences. Words to live by.

  • Pack pride lead investigator Nov 13, 8:13 p.m.
    Veteran

    I was watching the Ala. LSU game with 90 thousand in attendance. I don't see them or the... View More

    — Posted by ncstateforever

    I find it hard to believe that the Big Ten, which ranks second to the ACC in academic prestige,... View More

    — Posted by Ken D.

    Ken. Your 2nd paragraph on the 1st page hit it for me. I truly don't see any school leaving the... View More

    — Posted by Hokies94

    For the record I support every one of the new rules and the things that Ken suggested sound well reasoned too.
    I have (somewhat unfortunately) had a good deal of contact with the programs that I am talking about would possibly leave. The idea of them leaving is not some far fetched thing that I am just throwing out there it is what they openly suggested was in their best interest going back some 35 odd years. And they really believe it. I do not advocate it for my school or think that a university should be anything but a university first but I will play devils advocate and tell you what they believe like I have been told by them.
    First of all, the contracts are with ESPN not the NCAA. It is just a governing body. What is the difference in having a "conference realignment and leaving the NCAA out of it?Also, it would give us the ability to pay our players what they deserve to play football. And we do not have to pretend that they are in school learning anything when most of them are not. They vast majority of them are not getting a real degree at any institution anywhere. We could shut down the "communications major" department and put real students with real majors in their place. We could offer a higher product of football that more people would watch. Less schools would just mean that we would shift to 8 game schedules that would leave room for the 16 team playoff system we have always supported along with paying the players.
    Now back to reality...have you heard 90% of these ideas constantly and suddenly espoused from any certain major news source? For the record football used to be about schools and family bragging rights and the institution. Now not so much. Do I think it is likely? I did not think it would be likely that Texas a&m would leave their rivals since forever ...for the money. I did not think the NCAA would even look at playing players but they have...for the money. I would think a lot of things about

  • Hokies94 Nov 13, 5:43 p.m.
    Sports Legend

    I was watching the Ala. LSU game with 90 thousand in attendance. I don't see them or the... View More

    — Posted by ncstateforever

    I find it hard to believe that the Big Ten, which ranks second to the ACC in academic prestige,... View More

    — Posted by Ken D.

    Ken. Your 2nd paragraph on the 1st page hit it for me. I truly don't see any school leaving the NCAA. In spite of their many flaws, they are at least trying to make an effort now.

  • Ken D. Nov 13, 4:35 p.m.
    Sports Legend

    I was watching the Ala. LSU game with 90 thousand in attendance. I don't see them or the... View More

    — Posted by ncstateforever

    I find it hard to believe that the Big Ten, which ranks second to the ACC in academic prestige, and which would only accept schools who were members of the academically prestigious Association of American Universities, would leave the NCAA because they wanted higher academic standards. Especially if those standards reduced the competitive advantage the SEC now enjoys. I don't see the PAC 10 doing it either. The SEC and Big XII couldn't go it alone - they need the NCAA.

  • ncstateforever Nov 13, 11:12 a.m.
    All Star

    I was watching the Ala. LSU game with 90 thousand in attendance. I don't see them or the boosters wanting to change things and make it more difficult for them to fill those seats. The NCAA would be in a difficult postion if the SEC teams, the Big 12, the PAC 12, and the Big 10 were to leave and form their on athletic league with less stringent rules. One other thing, the NCAA inforcement team would have to increase its numbers to make sure that teams are following the academic rules. And, lastly, it is the National Collegiate [b]Athletic[b] not Academic Association.

  • hovis Nov 12, 11:04 a.m.
    All Star

    We agree completely. It would not bother me at all to see any of them leave anyway. But I think if you put "pressure" and "money and "winning by any means nessecary" on a a scale what certain schools would consider the weightier argument (with a large amount of fan support too).

  • Ken D. Nov 12, 10:59 a.m.
    Sports Legend

    I like every statement Ken D made but I seriously doubt the ability of the NCAA to enforce such... View More

    — Posted by hovis

    I agree that fans of some schools would not be happy with these rules. Those are the schools who currently enjoy what I consider an unfair competitive advantage due to their "management" of academic rules. But I believe most D-I schools (and certainly their presidents) would consider this an improvement.

    And even within the two leagues who I think would object most strenuously to such changes - the SEC and Big XII - I think their presidents and faculty would be mortified if they went their separate way from the NCAA. I don't think every school in those two conferences would secede even if the majority did. Surely Vanderbilt would not. I doubt Kentucky would be willing to make itself ineligible for a national championship in basketball. In the Big XII I don't think Kansas, K State or Iowa State would pull out, and I doubt two former members now in the SEC - Missouri and A&M - would go along either. I even think Texas, which seems to care a lot about its academic prestige, would stay in the NCAA.

    If presidents want to make a statement about the relationship of athletics to education, this is a way to do it, and if enough of them got behind it the peer pressure on the SEC would be tremendous. And if the SEC resisted that pressure and basically became an NFL developmental league - isn't that what a lot of people want to see anyway?

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