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I thought State was a national title contender?

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  • Hans Nov 21, 2012
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    At least the players showed a little fight in that Ohio State game. They didn't give up and pout on the bench like the losers did Sunday.

  • j5hunterwolf Nov 21, 2012
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    I was at that Ohio State game and I am not sure I see the parallel. Ohio State had just won the national title the season before and was sitting in a good place. The game was played in the horseshoe and was one of the best college games I have ever witnessed. I think it went into 3 or4 overtimes before Rivers came up just short. The game included Maurice Clarette (sp?) and TA McClendon who both just came off +1000 yd seasons. Both RBs turned out to be a bust in the long run.

    Point is - that situation and current situation are not equal. That was a defining point in that season going into one of the hardest places in country to play in front of +105000 against the defending national champs.

    I felt the high ranking was a curse for the basketball team and personally feel that rankings shouldn't come out until after a set amount of games/time (i.e 10 games, month). Every year there is a top ten team that doesn't pan out. A couple years ago it was the UNC team that ended up in the NIT. Hopefully this year it will not be any of the three triangle teams.

    Edit: Also like how you referred to Phillip Rivers as a "good" player.

  • Hans Nov 21, 2012
    Sports Legend

    Seeing as how we were all a lot younger the last time State beat UNC, I'll hold off on those types of claims until they actually win the season series against them. You chest-thumpers (who apparently still haven't learned your lesson even after the beatdown) can do what you see fit.

  • Wolfpackalypse Now Nov 21, 2012
    All Star

    State choked against an unbeaten Big 12 team. UNC got beaten by a team in the same conference as Charlotte and Richmond, a team which has already lost to Xavier this year. NCSU >>> UNC still.

  • packerbacker1976 Nov 21, 2012
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    Love a UNC man backing the Pack. UNC fans on this board should take a note from this guy and be a fan of college b-ball, and talk smack, but talk it intelligently as adults should.

  • buckets112 Nov 20, 2012
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    i don't know about top 15...nash and smart account for nearly 50% of the team's scoring. so if you can limit at least one of them, that will seriously hamper okst's ability to score because their bigs are limited offensively. the cowboys are currently 171st in the country in scoring at 70ppg. if you disrupt smart and nash they won't outscore you. that markel brown guy can score but he's very streaky.

    3 players (nash, smart, forte) accounted for 79% (60 of 76) of the pts okst scored the other night. state deserved to lose since they let 3 guys outscore their entire team.

  • VT1994Hokie Nov 19, 2012
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    buckets. I agree with you most of the time on here, but they have more than Smart and Nash. These guys moved the ball, and they ran the floor. I'll bet you they will be in the top 15 soon. Smart will be one of the best in the Country at the season's end. I will agree that this may be a wake up call for them too. They did have a punch in the face. They need to work on a few attitudes like I stated. Too early to tell much, but I saw a glimpse last night.

  • larrys080 Nov 19, 2012
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    The difference between being the "hunter" and the "hunted"! States in unfamiliar waters right now.

  • packalum10 Nov 19, 2012
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    I do not believe the problem is Leslie or that he is what NCSU should look for in a leader. Also, others have pointed to Wood as a leader and that is fictional. He is a role model, but the leader needs to be Brown. As the PG Brown is supposed to set the tone and run the offense. If everyone is looking for their shot, then the philosophy of Gott's offense fails. It's about reads and taking high percentage shots. This game was a challenge both defensively (which State played poorly prior to this loss) and offensively (there was no passing, even early). State had beat the previous teams with their athleticism. I don't believe Leslie is mad about touches. He had been very efficient and team oriented prior to this game (cheering on the sideline for the freshmen and walk ons). Leslie was playing an equally athletic player and defended him well. Once he fouled out, that player excelled. I think that he had an immature moment in speaking to the refs, but was frustrated overall with the running of the offense, turnovers and the physical play that was going on. He is a finesse player, but not as selfish as I think ppl believe. Two of the best PG's in the ACC (in recent yrs) shared the ball well, scored when needed and kept the team together like glue. They played hard no matter what, offense or defense, even though one was considered a subpar defender. If our veteran PG does not do this, then everything breaks down. The fact that we have two talented freshmen (that can no doubt score) leads to mismatches and aids our other players getting more looks. They just have to be patient and share.

  • VT1994Hokie Nov 19, 2012
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    Telling stuff Hovis. The pre-season hype should have been quelled by the coaches before the season began. It was a dismal performance for a #6 ranked team. These young bucks bought into the hype and they folded like a high school team. Smart and Nash looked like All-Americans against State. Smart is going to be one of the best in the Country at the end of this season. Lutz is the glue up there. He reminds me of Bud Foster @VT.

  • buckets112 Nov 19, 2012
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    yep, spot on...i was thinking that gottfried would have challenges melding the freshmen with, not so much all the veterans, but with calvin specifically. from what the players have been saying about gott during interviews is encouraging though...that he takes the time to talk to the players and gets to know them and wants to know how they feel. i think if there is any coach in america that can get leslie to buy into the team concept, gott is the one. he proved it last year, now he has another challenge of getting leslie to buy into it again.

  • kato_karma.v3 Nov 19, 2012
    Sports Legend

    Again, excellent observation.

    CJ is really a good kid at heart, just easily mis-understood/mis-read. His HSHS coach took the 'tough love' approach and exacerbated relationships with him as well as his teammates (they guy actually had 3 other D1 prospects that he ran away from the program).

    Gott has his hands full, for sure. The bigger problem will be the ability/in-ability for CJ's peers to understand the difference between preferential treatment vs being sensitive to his personality (and learning style).

  • buckets112 Nov 19, 2012
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    what he needs to understand is that he doesn't need to avg 20 and 10 to be a high draft pick. if he plays efficiently within the offense and demonstrates that he's a good teammate by being supportive and not going solo commando all the time he'll be appealing to draft scouts.

    i'm a little partial to calvin and i truly want him to succeed in life because i admit i have a similar personality...i tend to internalize criticism a bit too much and take things too personally sometimes...that's why i played better for players type coaches instead of the tom coughlin types. whenever the camera does a close up of his face sulking on the sideline it's hard for me to get mad at him because i was the same way back then. now i just don't give a kr4p what ppl think LOL.

  • VT1994Hokie Nov 19, 2012
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    Very true. I was wondering about the attitudes of some of the players last night.

  • kato_karma.v3 Nov 19, 2012
    Sports Legend

    You are bang on, buckets. As mentioned before, kato has known CJ since he was like 8 years old playing Holly Springs req ball with his son. Wishing the best for him, but if he does not get the touches he feels he deserves, then things turn sour (was like that in jr high, at HSHS, at WOG, at camps, etc.). Was actually hoping for his sake (and family), that he'd jump to the NBA after last season. School is just not his thing...never was and never will be...his sights have been set on the League since grade school. Hoping to be wrong, but things may get worse because the Pack does not need him to score like 17 a night to win.

  • buckets112 Nov 19, 2012
    Sports Legend

    might need to run a few more plays for calvin in the post...i think he should touch the ball down there at least every other possession

  • buckets112 Nov 19, 2012
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    i've been paying special attention to how leslie has been acting when he's on the floor and when he's on the bench.

    in the first game against miami of ohio, he was fully engaged...high fiving teammates, smiling, and jumping up and with everyone else when the scrubs were scoring during garbage time.

    as the puerto rico tourney went on, he demeanor became more and more sullen...as if he was becoming resentful that warren and purvis were doing all the scoring and he was relegated to being the third and even fourth option if you throw howell into the mix. this started to show last night when he was forcing the action a little bit and hurrying to shoot whenever he got the ball.

    the thing with calvin is that he's a very emotional guy and tends to take things personal a lot of times. it will be a tremendous challenge for the coaching staff to keep him engaged...especially if he starts to feel that the emergence of the freshmen is negatively affecting his productivity and draft status. it's feast or famine with calvin...when he's playing well things are great but if he's not playing great and starts getting into foul trouble, the old cj starts to come out.

  • kato_karma.v3 Nov 19, 2012
    Sports Legend

    Speaking of chemistry, it remains to be seen how the returning players react to developing roles and expectations on offense. Zo handles the ball as the primary PG, so he will be ok wrt shot opportunities and involvement. However -- Leslie, Howell, and Wood will have to accept the emergence of Warren and Purvis as key scorers. History shows that when CJ is not conscientiously involved in the offense, it effects his overall attentiveness (team chemistry, look out).

  • gordenjon Nov 19, 2012
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    Reminds me of the football team several years back that was returning several "good" players and NCSU fans were talking undefeated,national champs!! Someone forgot to tell "Ohio State" (OSU, too..how ironic) how great Wolfpack was in the opening game of the season. I believe that football team went on to a very mediocre season after that loss. Big difference in saying how good you are, and proving how good you are in big games. Good luck, Wolfpack; we'll be watching how it goes from here.

  • sportznut628 Nov 19, 2012
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    The coach should be able to get the players attention now, everyone should be listening in practice....

  • buckets112 Nov 19, 2012
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    i think it was more of an effort issue than chemistry. they were in the right spots defensively for the most part, just seemed like they didn't want to run through screens, box out, or close hard on shooters. too many reach in fouls too which usually means you're being lazy and not staying in front of your guy. if i saw finger pointing, arguing, or gestures of exasperation aimed at teammates then i would see it as a chemistry problem.

  • ncstateforever Nov 19, 2012
    All Star

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    T.J. Warren is one of the best freshmen in the country. You're right when you say he should be starting. He and Purvis played their hearts out and were the actual leaders of the team. OSU were a quick and athletic team. They really came out with the attitude that they could win. I think this was a good loss for State. They know now that every team that faces them will be giving them their best shot. The crosshairs are on them and they will have to learn to play with that.

  • hovis Nov 19, 2012
    All Star

    For discussion here are the numbers:
    FG%-OK-42.1%; NCSU-35.5%
    3pt-OK-36.4%; NCSU-28.6%
    FT-OK-83.3%; NCSU-50%
    Reb(Off&Def)-OK-54; NCSU-37
    Assists-OK-14; NCSU-7
    Stl-OK-6; NCSU-9 Blk-OK-8; NCSU-1 TO-OK-13; NCSU-12

    Usually you would attribute these kind of stats to a young team butthe young players really performed well. Baffling statistics.

  • sportznut628 Nov 19, 2012
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    Wood will be seeing a lot less minutes this year imo, you can't keep a player like Warren on the bench much longer. I really think States depth amongst the bigs is an issue..Vanderberg just got 2 minutes of burn, thought he would see more time this year..... still early

  • sportznut628 Nov 19, 2012
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    defense is the key for most teams, no different for the Pack this year. You can't help but wonder if there isn't some kind of chemistry issue going on also - but it is still very early lots of bball to play

  • kato_karma.v3 Nov 19, 2012
    Sports Legend

    Yup, Warren should be starting and Wood should be coming off the bench. He would deal with that much better than Leslie (no need to go into the repercussions of that).

    Overall team ball-handling depth behind/besides Zo is another concern. Lewis should get better, but he looked out-of-sync and a bit overwhelmed at times in Puerto Rico. Purvis has a scorer's mentality but is not a natural distributor.

  • swedish.chef Nov 19, 2012
    Veteran

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    We weren't strong on defense, Brown was taking a coffee break for the entire game, and they had two players north of twenty points, and another with 17. As was stated before, there will be nights where the shots won't fall, but what worried me the most was the response from the guys. It literally looked like the only guys who cared were the freshmen. Everybody else gave up.

    I also think it's time for TJ Warren to be starting. The kid is easily the best player on our team right now, why keep him off the floor?

  • buckets112 Nov 19, 2012
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    they definitely haven't played with the same sense of urgency that they had on the defensive end in the latter part of last year when they held opponents to something like 60ppg. i'm sure they'll start playing with increased intensity after this debacle.

    need to pick it up for friday's game against unc-asheville or the consecutive games against michigan and uconn will get ugly.

  • sportznut628 Nov 19, 2012
    Sports Legend

    Gottfired was let go at Alabama for amongst other things lack of defense. State is going down the same path, they are lazy as hell on the defensive end. If the plan is to outscore all opponents and not play any defense then it will be a long year for State.

  • sportznut628 Nov 19, 2012
    Sports Legend



    nice

  • buckets112 Nov 19, 2012
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    good sport? i've been called many things in my life but i believe that's the first time i've been called that haha. i try to have good sports discussions here despite the constant "other stuff" going on. this is really the only outlet i have since my coworkers are more interested in the nfl and nba and don't really pay attention to the acc.

    unc will likely at least make the sweet 16 again like they always do, despite whatever early season growing pains they go through. success breeds success and that mentality is ingrained in the program. hopefully state gets back to that level again, sooner rather than later.

  • Wolfpackalypse Now Nov 19, 2012
    All Star

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    Yep, that's what I saw as well. No matter how much talent a team has, they just can't win on "autopilot" against every opponent, ranked or not.

  • DooksucksV3 Nov 19, 2012
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    We are expecting UNC to lose early, they are experimenting with lineups and the chemistry has had issues, though it was much better in the second half against Long Beach State.
    They will probably lose that badly to Indiana, but Indiana is #1.
    That target on your back means everyone plays hard against you. Average teams will sometimes rise and do things they will never do again when they play ranked teams.
    Hats off to you for being a good sport;-)

  • buckets112 Nov 18, 2012
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    thanks...i think the only thing i contributed while i was active duty was helping my squadron win back to back intramural flag football titles (one undefeated season) haha. i did more for this fine country of ours while serving as an army civilian (one trip to IZ and 2 to AFG).

    but anyway, i predicted 8-10 losses this year and it's only the 4th game of the season so the panic button isn't even on the same continent as me yet. i agreed with your point about the target being on state's back in the game recap thread. a loss like this is a great teaching point.

  • Dr. Feelgood Nov 18, 2012
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    Hey, happy Veterans Day. Yeah, you are going to get the perfect storm more than in the past due to the ranking and hype. NCSU will be one of those "signature wins" for teams come bubble time if they can pull it off against the Pack.

  • buckets112 Nov 18, 2012
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    you're absolutely right...they definitely didn't have the right mentality today. they started out playing like they had a 20pt lead against some nobody team and when the ball didn't go in and the calls weren't going their way, they let it affect their all around effort on both ends.

    it's just one of those nights...every team encounters the perfect storm of not playing well and the opponent at their best. that little white guy forte had 17pts. i'll bet good money that he doesn't avg more than 6 or 7ppg all year LOL. meh, it happens. when i was active duty we were undefeated going into the joint intramural bball playoffs up at ft. meade and lost in the first game to the last place team that got their hands on limitless pills and hit 11-16 threes.

    state will probably lose at least one other game in a stinker fashion like this. happens to everyone.

  • buckets112 Nov 18, 2012
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    well, to be honest there are fans from about 20 teams right now saying they'll be cutting down the nets in april. i never heard anyone spouting off about an undefeated season, that's crazy talk. it's still too early to make predictions about the postseason...we're only 4 games into the season after all. but beating carolina twice is still a real possibility! :)

  • WeHaveSixBanners Nov 18, 2012
    Veteran

    First this: http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l52/brando432/photo-2.jpg

    Then this: http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l52/brando432/NCStatePride.png

    Already in production: http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l52/brando432/Football_School.png

  • Dr. Feelgood Nov 18, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Defense has Gott to stiffen up Buckets. Some nights when the ball does not go in the hoop, you have to win ugly. I think this team will really miss Painter more than most are willing to admit for now.

  • PacknoPride Nov 18, 2012
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    Hey, we aren't saying we are the greatest. Yall are. We know we are in a rebuilding year, with 4 starters gone. Yall are the ones predicting a National Championship, undefeated season,and beating Carolina two times. We know we'll be lucky to win twenty games.

  • buckets112 Nov 18, 2012
    Sports Legend

    it's not like they were going to go undefeated...they'll probably lose several more games. hopefully not like this though.

    just be prepared to receive some of your stuff back from others when unc loses.

  • DooksucksV3 Nov 18, 2012
    Sports Legend

    They ate a big old cow pie tonight.

  • buckets112 Nov 18, 2012
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    that's what they get for playing like that

  • buckets112 Nov 18, 2012
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    i guess we'll find out over the next two months. ok st plays good defense and has two great guards, other than that there isn't much there. it looked like state thought they were playing belmont and could cruise right on through. sometimes you need to get punched in the face and eat some humble pie.

  • PacknoPride Nov 18, 2012
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    But not Ranked?

  • PacknoPride Nov 18, 2012
    Sports Legend

    Reality Bites. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

  • DooksucksV3 Nov 18, 2012
    Sports Legend

    LMAO, 76-56 curb stomp!!!!!!

  • Hans Nov 18, 2012
    Sports Legend

    Oklahoma State is a great team. You will see as the season unfolds, just like we saw with Tennessee in football.

  • DooksucksV3 Nov 18, 2012
    Sports Legend

    You just got blown out by an unranked Oklahoma State squad.

    LMAO!!!!!!

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