Question about the Doeren timeline.
RE: Question about the Doeren timeline.
I'll judge him based on what I see. I don't think it is fair to truly judge him on win-loss records until year 3, or maybe 4. It takes time to get players in place, and he's taking over in a rebuilding year. This would have been a tough year for TOB. So I expect it will not be a great first year for Doeren, either, based on our returning player personnel. The well isn't completely empty, but we have a huge question mark at the most important position on the field -- QB.
I didn't think it was fair to judge TOB in his first three years, and I think the same way about Doeren. It will be fair to judge him on recruiting I suppose. If he's only bringing in 2-star players, with the occasional 3-star, then Houston, we might have a problem.
- Posted by TruthBKnown Returned
This is true. What we have left is a bunch of pro-style players. All indications are his offense is more up-tempo and spread. I really expect us to be at or in the basement the next two seasons as players transition and new ones grow up in the system.
RE: Question about the Doeren timeline.
I'll judge him based on what I see. I don't think it is fair to truly judge him on win-loss records until year 3, or maybe 4. It takes time to get players in place, and he's taking over in a rebuilding year. This would have been a tough year for TOB. So I expect it will not be a great first year for Doeren, either, based on our returning player personnel. The well isn't completely empty, but we have a huge question mark at the most important position on the field -- QB.
I didn't think it was fair to judge TOB in his first three years, and I think the same way about Doeren. It will be fair to judge him on recruiting I suppose. If he's only bringing in 2-star players, with the occasional 3-star, then Houston, we might have a problem.
- Posted by TruthBKnown Returned
That is completely fair. Notice that I even placed my own numbers behind terms like "close losses". Things could change between now and the beginning of the season too. Good assistants, maybe some serious 5 star level athlete like Q. Davis was for us this year or Diggs was for Maryland. Never know.
You can still get an idea of how hard the team plays and how well coached they may or may not be even without great talent.
Yep, there are ways to judge his performance. It just shouldn't be based primarily on record until a little later. Now if he actually wins a lot in his first year, when we're not expected to win much, that could be a feather in his cap. It could demonstrate that he's maximizing the potential of our players. But losing games is not necessarily a strike against him.
I do think he should get rolling a little quicker than TOB did. TOB had a bigger rebuilding job. Chuck had really driven us deep into a ditch. We're not that far off the road at this point. He has some pieces to build on.
RE: Question about the Doeren timeline.
If we grant that the next two years could be tough for Doeren wins and loss wise, what would be acceptable to most NCSU fans for his record to be in this time that he is going to try and replace and rebuild the talent core? Everybody wants instant success, and he couldhave that too even if it is highly unlikely. Example; would 5 wins next year be considered permissible to you? Would 7 or 8 wins be a success? How about the following year?
- Posted by hovis
Based upon what State has returning next season, I wouldn't think they will win many. He is going to be bringing in a new staff, and the OC's and the DC's will more than likely have a different scheme vs TOB. I will disagree with The 1 in regard to beating UNC. That's nothing.
Yow is looking for this coach to bring an upward building progam to the point of being a consistent team in the top 25 best in the Country. I repeat a consistent team. Most coaches take at least 3 years to bring in their recruits, and become a winner. In the past, State has played some weak non-conference teams, and this padded their wins. If they win 4-6 games next season; it would be OK, I think.
RE: Question about the Doeren timeline.
Hokie, we may just have a decent QB in Manny Stocker next year. The last time he got significant playing time, he ran the ball VERY well. Now if he can THROW the ball, too, he'll be a good weapon for us. He just hasn't gotten many opportunities to throw the ball. Usually, when he comes in, we just trying to kill the clock. So he either hands it off or runs it, himself. Seems like he did throw a pretty pass in that last game, too.
I'm not writing State off next year. I'm not saying we're going to be good, either. I think we're an unknown commodity next year. New players at key positions, new coaches, etc. We won't know until we know.
RE: Question about the Doeren timeline.
Won't have much going till year 3. Might get lucky and win 4-5 next year and 6-7 in year 2, but not seeing it much better than that with the cupboards being so bare. If he had some recruits to work with but you have to figure he will redshirt most of what is coiming in this year and next.
RE: Question about the Doeren timeline.
Hokie, we may just have a decent QB in Manny Stocker next year. The last time he got significant playing time, he ran the ball VERY well. Now if he can THROW the ball, too, he'll be a good weapon for us. He just hasn't gotten many opportunities to throw the ball. Usually, when he comes in, we just trying to kill the clock. So he either hands it off or runs it, himself. Seems like he did throw a pretty pass in that last game, too.
I'm not writing State off next year. I'm not saying we're going to be good, either. I think we're an unknown commodity next year. New players at key positions, new coaches, etc. We won't know until we know.
- Posted by TruthBKnown Returned
A solid QB will be the key. If the guy can throw and lead the offense he is in front of the game. It's a learning curve especially since he hasn't had many snaps. I did appreciate the new coach in his interview when Yow hired him. He shot straight, and he didn't say anything close to the Larry Fedora stuff. It takes time when a new staff comes in.
What I know about this past season is that Beamer, Steinspring, O'Cain, and Newsome didn't do the job. The powers are on Beamer to fire these 3 coaches. I doubt Frank has this much courage. The same ol boring offense. Logan Thomas didn't come close this year. Dismal playing. I would hope that Beamer will pull the trigger, or he will be like TOB one day. It wouldn't bother me at all.
RE: Question about the Doeren timeline.
Hokie, we may just have a decent QB in Manny Stocker next year. The last time he got significant playing time, he ran the ball VERY well. Now if he can THROW the ball, too, he'll be a good weapon for us. He just hasn't gotten many opportunities to throw the ball. Usually, when he comes in, we just trying to kill the clock. So he either hands it off or runs it, himself. Seems like he did throw a pretty pass in that last game, too.
I'm not writing State off next year. I'm not saying we're going to be good, either. I think we're an unknown commodity next year. New players at key positions, new coaches, etc. We won't know until we know.
- Posted by TruthBKnown Returned
I believe that Stocker could be a good qb and still struggle some. Usually gets at least one year to learn a new system often 2 and sometimes 3 years through redshirt. They also spend this time learning the new receivers that will play with them when the others graduate. Even in these circumstances greatness is not expected of the first time starting year.
If he does not look spectacular a lot of people will say that he is not good. That is not a fair assessment if you take these facts into account.
RE: Question about the Doeren timeline.
On paper State doesn't look good next year - but TBK is right you have to play the games - This year State looked very good on paper only to have another mediocre year.
However TOB did have three winning seasons in a row - a couple of losing seasons just won't sit well in Raleigh
RE: Question about the Doeren timeline.
On paper State doesn't look good next year - but TBK is right you have to play the games - This year State looked very good on paper only to have another mediocre year.
However TOB did have three winning seasons in a row - a couple of losing seasons just won't sit well in Raleigh
- Posted by SportznutV2.0
With a new coach, I think we could tolerate a couple of losing seasons. Just a couple, though. Meaning TWO. Three losing seasons, and I think Doeren would be on the hotseat to make more progress. Actually, knowing Debbie, he might be gone after two.
RE: Question about the Doeren timeline.
On paper State doesn't look good next year - but TBK is right you have to play the games - This year State looked very good on paper only to have another mediocre year.
However TOB did have three winning seasons in a row - a couple of losing seasons just won't sit well in Raleigh
- Posted by SportznutV2.0
With a new coach, I think we could tolerate a couple of losing seasons. Just a couple, though. Meaning TWO. Three losing seasons, and I think Doeren would be on the hotseat to make more progress. Actually, knowing Debbie, he might be gone after two.
And that would just make recruiting even harder for the next coach. Unlike basketball, football players will be there at least 3 years before they can declare for the draft. Many players would be hesitant to attend a school if there was a good possibility that the coaching staff would be gone in a year or two.
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