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Neutral Opinion needed....Video of last play of Dook game...

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  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 12, 2013
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    Oh, I agree. I never said it was right. I just think that is how they operate. And if it is, teams need to act accordingly to do what it takes to finish the game at the very end. If I'm right, it would be a big advantage for teams that are aware of this.

  • Chapel Hail Feb 12, 2013
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    ... it's a makeup no call for the time that Duke f-baller saluted the ole' Virginny crowd and got a personal foul that allowed the Cavs to continue their game winning drive.

  • dUNCe Feb 12, 2013
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    Ask State fans after Marshall charged at the end of the game with UNC last year and the Ref ate his whistle. You're right though a foul is a foul no matter when it happens.

  • DooksucksV3 Feb 12, 2013
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    Truth is never a conundrum.

  • TVs_Deceit Feb 12, 2013
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    At the same time.. Howell got slammed like a linebacker by the Clemson dude, and that could have been called as well.. and usually is at any other time in a game.

  • TVs_Deceit Feb 12, 2013
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    I understand your point, but it's still a possession, and the team has a right to score points unhindered the same as the first possession in a game. At least by not being flagrantly hindered.

    Who gives the game away can also be seen as the player doing the flagrant fouling.

    Taking out the two players ON PURPOSE was a gross offense, and Cook is the one who, if called, "gave away" the game by committing the fouls. Not the refs.

    In fact, the refs could also be said to be giving away the game to Duke by not calling the foul.

    Also, the BC players could have easily been injured the way Cook ran in shoving and undercutting.

    If refs let that kind of intentional fouling continue to occur "just because" there's only a few seconds in a game, eventually a player's going to pay the price with a potentially serious injury.

  • BattlingBishop 5 Feb 11, 2013
    Sports Legend

    Had #25 held his ground versus running like a Tallahassee Tar Heel, we wouldn't be having this debate.

    All kiddin' aside, I saw a push in the back in the final secs., followed by a Duke Blue Backbreaker. All that matters is the score.

  • Unc r Hypocrits Feb 11, 2013
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    Subjects getting changed is very normal here. You'll get used to it. :)

  • Unc r Hypocrits Feb 11, 2013
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    Oh my.

  • SpartanDude Feb 11, 2013
    Veteran

    So this thread is about NC State's last play against Clemson? I thought it was about The Duke - BC game. Hmmm. Alright, I'll go with it.

    Okay, based on my previous comment about Cook's shove plus undercut of the BC players, I'm not surprised the refs swallowed their whistles at the end of the NCState - Clemson game. A little shuffle by the shooter is not uncommon and not often whistled by the refs nowadays. Clemson had enough opportunities to ice the game but failed to seal NC State's fate. The better team actually won the game, just like in the BC game.

  • VT1994Hokie Feb 11, 2013
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    Good analysis. I too thought Wood shuffled his feet. It happens.

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 11, 2013
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    Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCUUGdn-irY

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 11, 2013
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    Yep, Wood was awesome on that final play! The play was well designed, and perfectly executed. It was a thing of beauty!

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 11, 2013
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    After giving this more thought, I'm OK with what happened. (And it is similar to what happened at the end of the State-Miami game, as well...)

    In both games, the team with the ball took their shot at winning the game. They got the shot off, and missed. And there was almost no time left on the clock. After the missed shots, I believe the refs are simply not going to GIVE the game to either team. They're going to allow the hard contact underneath.

    In the State-Miami game, I think Howell would have gotten away with a hip-bump that pushed the Miami player out of position. In that game, we just happened to be on the receiving end of it. But the same principle was in play. The refs were not going to GIVE the game to either team. So they just let it play out underneath.

    I'll be watching for this in future games to see if my theory is correct.

  • 903 mens national championships Feb 11, 2013
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    That was before my time, so I am glad to hear that it goes back even further. It makes me feel better that the double standard didn't just start when Coach K arrived in Durham and began to implement his evil plan to use the conference to become a national power.

  • BeastOnTheHill Feb 11, 2013
    Sports Legend

    it doesn't matter at that point that dook got lucky because BC beat that chump dook team all night last night.

    the one point win is just for the record books. dook is not that good and they are over ranked. Miami is a better team with a better coach!

  • blueduke4 Feb 11, 2013
    Sports Legend

    ^Please explain this to the young wolf fringers, so they can stop using the refs as a conspiracy to hold their team down. thx in advance

  • unc70 Feb 11, 2013
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    It goes back much further than that. Over twenty years before K was hired by Duke. We didn't have all the video replays then, but it was there with Case, Bubas, McGuire, McKinney.

  • 903 mens national championships Feb 11, 2013
    Sports Legend

    Refs have been inconsistent in the ACC since Coach K's famously pointing out the double standard that existed for Dean Smith. Since that press conference, nothing has changed.

  • unc70 Feb 11, 2013
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    I think it is impossible to run State's final play without taking several steps. Certainly not when receiving the pass as far in as Wood did and then having to square up. After catching the ball in a full run away from the basket, you need a couple of steps to stop and square up. To be legal, you need to already be turning to face the basket when you catch the ball.

    I suppose someone could catch and jump while twisting in the air and get off a legal shot. Not a high percentage one, and certainly not Wood's style. Still need to be further out for it to be a three.

    It is hard enough running towards the basket, receiving a pass, and pulling up for a shot without taking an extra step. Probably a majority of players now take an extra step in that situation.

  • PackisBack Feb 11, 2013
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    This is posted by a UNC fan you dolt!

  • TsKaMF Feb 11, 2013
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    Yep. How about Thorton stepping out of bounds on the assist right B-4 that ?

  • SpartanDude Feb 11, 2013
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    Yes, Coach K is a smart one and has taken advantage of any little thing he could. There are many coaches out there who should take note and use tactics like this to give their team as much a chance at winning as they can. Eventually, I see this turning into an issue that all conferences will address by pressing their refs to keep blowing the whistle until there are zeroes on the clock.

  • blueduke4 Feb 11, 2013
    Sports Legend

    ^pretty much, is what it is and i dont like it, but if they are gonna allow it, a smart coach uses it.

  • SpartanDude Feb 11, 2013
    Veteran

    It's pretty clear to me that Cook not only shoves one BC (#25) player away from the lane, he also undercuts the BC rebounder (#12) knocking him to the floor. I guess we all should just expect the refs to swallow their whistles and not make any calls in the last few seconds of a game?

  • Unc r Hypocrits Feb 11, 2013
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    I hear you, unc70. We came from an era when finesse, not physical, play, was what we saw. That always hurt us (the ACC) in the NCAAs, where other teams were used to a lot of 'touching'.

    Also saw the extra step Wood got at the end. Seeing the replay from a midcourt angle made me gasp. Glad it wasn't called. :)

  • Metta World Biff Feb 11, 2013
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    Classic

  • PackisBack Feb 11, 2013
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    It's not a NCSU game. Just shut up clueless dolt!

  • blueduke4 Feb 11, 2013
    Sports Legend

    Still worried about the refs.....biggggg surprise there

  • SportznutV2.0 Feb 11, 2013
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    very true..I think a 20 second battle royal would be sweet to end a game

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 11, 2013
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    I thought it was an undercut and should have been called a foul (against Duke).

    But apparently, teams can do no wrong in the last 5 seconds of a game. So a no-call is par for the course.

  • DooksucksV3 Feb 11, 2013
    Sports Legend

    When Dook gets away from the ACC refs they lose this advantage.

    Dook does not make it past the sweet 16 yet again, more than likely they flame out much earlier.

  • TVs_Deceit Feb 11, 2013
    Pro

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    Yeah.. the greatest Kon man ever to manipulate a game. No breaking news there oh pile of Dookie. [Y'all certainly got the name right]

  • TVs_Deceit Feb 11, 2013
    Pro

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    Just stating the obvious.. not mad or bitter.

    I live a life that values honor above winning a game. You wouldn't understand that.

  • MoDuke v2 is gone Feb 11, 2013
    Sports Legend

    A lot of flopping going on by the BC players there at the end. Well that's what the ABDers would be saying if the sneaker was on the other foot. LOL

  • blueduke4 Feb 11, 2013
    Sports Legend

    Tainted legacy, wow, the crying never stops on this forum. Good thing all the professionals consider K the greatest, pretty much makes your point null and void tv boy.

  • flairrick Feb 11, 2013
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    Wow, someone is a little mad and bitter.

    And since you are so good with reading folks minds and predicting the future, you dont happen to have the Power Ball numbers for Wed do you?

  • unc70 Feb 11, 2013
    Sports Legend

    Duke was getting away with those type if pushes most ofthe BC game. Cook gets away with a lot of pushing off with his left arm in general. I wish the refs would call it a bit closer all the time, but I've about given up on that ever happening.

    Extra steps are another peeve of mine. Scott Wood took an extra couple on that final shot against Clemson. The camera from the other end shows two, possibly three steps after his "pivot" was established. That would rarely be called.

    The worst example of steps is from KU-KSU a couple of years ago. I still have the single frames. Four extra steps, then jumped into the defender who had not moved, and the call was blocking! Final and winning play of the game!

  • Wolfpackindahizzy4shizzy Feb 11, 2013
    Sports Legend

    ^^^at least one duke fan has the gumption to admit it takes a "lil help from the zebs" from time to time.

    well done.

  • sickofblackleaders Feb 11, 2013
    Sports Legend

    I don't know what all of you are complaining about. We are DUKE, and we are supposed to get those calls. When you lesser schools have attained what Duke has then you can complain.

  • Wolfpackindahizzy4shizzy Feb 11, 2013
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    a LOT of DEFENSE in that post.

  • TVs_Deceit Feb 11, 2013
    Pro

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    Thing is.. there's no way something so obvious, massive and blatant was "missed".

    You don't "miss" someone running in at full speed with both arms outstretched and knocking one player about 20 feet out of the way while chop blocking another one.

    There's no other conclusion to be made other than the refs let him get away with it, and that the way he did it so blatantly. he knew the refs would let him get away with it.

    If he did that without knowing it wouldn't be called, and without K's blessing to do it, and BC was put on the line for game winning free throws, K would bench him for so long, he and the chair would become one.

    I have no doubt that in situations like that K authorizes fouling hard because he KNOWS the refs will let him get away with it.

    Dam right the refs gave that one to Duke. It's dirty, and why K's record will always be a tainted one for anyone that knows how he teaches to cheat to win.

    Hand check and use the hand contact to push off and flop back at the right moment and you can "sell" a foul. To people with honor that's defined as "cheating".

    To con men it's just a method to gain an advantage.. and your Coach Kon has built his tainted "legacy" on it.

  • blueduke4 Feb 11, 2013
    Sports Legend

    If you all hate how the refs are calling games, then stop f*cking watching. You guys act like EVERY game is going to be called perfectly EVERY time. Of course things will be missed, sometimes it works out for you, and sometimes it does not. I can assure 100% that the BC coach is not talking about it to his guys today and instead is telling them not to leave in the hands of the refs at the end of a game. Put a team away and this is not a problem. Duke had a poor shooting night, but did not let that effect their intensity on the defense end. Maybe the fans of the other triangle teams on here should stop whining about blown calls and start sendng that same hate to the coach of their team telling him to make defense a priority. Cause defense is not something alot of these local teams want to play.

  • TVs_Deceit Feb 11, 2013
    Pro

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    Well, the way the Duke player [Cook?] went flying in there with arms raised to push the BC player out of the way.. K must teach the "no fouls will be called at last second.. so go wild" technique the same way he teaches the flop.

    No fouls/last second is BS to the max. In this case it most probably cost BC the game and gave Duke a dirty win. Maybe touch fouls are let go, but when a player has obvious intentions to clear out, and hard, in order to prevent an opposing player from scoring a winning basket then there is no doubt that it should be called.

    It seems K has used more than the flop to cheat his way to 900 wins.

  • TVs_Deceit Feb 11, 2013
    Pro

    Stop at 1:58 - see the arms stretched out. I think it was Duke player #2? came running in with his arms stretched out and pushed the heck out of a Boston Coll player and then the other BC dude fell down. -- Clear push in the back, and a "at full speed" one too. -- The Duke player was definitely running in on purpose to push the BC player out of position to rebound.

    Conclusion: Not only a foul, but intentional too. Bad no call.. took out at least 2 BC players and prevented a very possible rebound and put-back. Without the major push in the back, there may have a different winner.

  • NCSU72 Feb 11, 2013
    Sports Legend

    Looks like a "2 fer" for Cook. He pushed 25 out of bounds and then clipped 12 in the back knocking him off his feet. I did have to watch it a couple of times to see both "hits." The shove on 25 was pretty obvious. The back clip on 12 was a little trickier to see. Sneaky little guy that Cook.

  • Wolfpackindahizzy4shizzy Feb 11, 2013
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    Allowing (even promoting) two hand shoves to the back is potentially quite dangerous.

    I should hope the league would be above "tv".

    Also (fwiw), Jay Bilas agrees with me.

  • 903 mens national championships Feb 11, 2013
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    Agreed. When ESPN's announcers call these end of game situations and say "well there was some contact, but typically the refs are gonna swallow their whistle and let players decide it on the court instead of at the line", then pretty clearly the league and its officials have established the precedent.

  • Wolfpackindahizzy4shizzy Feb 11, 2013
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    To ignore it (a foul), is to promote it.

    To promote it, is not good for the game.

    A foul is a foul regardless of "time".

  • PacknoPride Feb 11, 2013
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    +948

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