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Last-possession no-calls

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  • unc70 Feb 13, 2013
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    Even for most of us in light blue.

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 13, 2013
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    No doubt.

  • VT1994Hokie Feb 12, 2013
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    I remember it well when Laettner's turn around jump shot near the key won this one. It's still a high light reel for Duke. Coming home from VT late that night. Oh. The good ol days getting home at 11:30 - 12:00 am. I guess that Laettner was kinda off balance with a body under him to hit this one. Good one Mo Duke.

  • StunGunn Feb 12, 2013
    Sports Legend

    ^^^^

    I didn't know that. Things that make you go, "hmmmm". Duke and their fans have a right to be bitter about that game, that's fo rsure.

  • MoDuke v2 is gone Feb 12, 2013
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    Probably the biggest whitewash in NCAA history. But here is a little tidbit that I'll bet not too many remember. Two of the three officials were ACC refs. Wonder what part ol' Swoffie played in that one. Hmmmm :)

  • StunGunn Feb 12, 2013
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    I remember that game as well. At first, I was glad Duke lost, for obvious reasons, but then I did feel really bad when K's players were so upset and hugged him, as if they let him down. That was a crushing loss. My husband asked me why I wanted Duke to lose when they have good players who work hard and stay out of trouble. He was right; I was ashamed that I wanted them to lose. I changed my attitude after that game. I pull for all ACC teams now in the NCAA's.

  • StunGunn Feb 12, 2013
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    Ha ha ha - how DARE his chest get in the way of Laetner's foot!!!:)

  • SpartanDude Feb 12, 2013
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    Don't leave out TV Teddy Valentine. I suspect he is not so biased toward a given team, as long as he gets his share of the limelight. That moment for TV Teddy usually comes at the expense of one or sometimes both teams depending on TV Teddy's mood.

  • VT1994Hokie Feb 12, 2013
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    Yep. Hess and a few others out there do this to get a few back. Bias is real in every facet of our lives. I'm guilty as charged.

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 12, 2013
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    I remember that. UConn had no business winning that game. The refs let them get away with bloody murder all game long. It still irks me. They deprived (one of!) the all-time best Duke teams of the championship they deserved that year. Duke was a quasi-pro team in 1999. It was pretty disgusting, unless you are of the lighter blue persuasion.

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 12, 2013
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    I think so, too. It's just human nature. If one guy is all up in your grill all night long, you're probably going to appease him more than the timid guy at the other end. Even if it's a subconscious thing.

    And then there are the occasional refs that definitely support THEIR team from time to time. E.g., Karl Hess.

  • VT1994Hokie Feb 12, 2013
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    Pretty clever. Darn.

  • Tar Heels Victory-Show No Mercer Feb 12, 2013
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    LOL!

  • MoDuke v2 is gone Feb 12, 2013
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    They should have called a flagrant tripping foul on Timberlake for rolling up under Laettner's foot like that. He could have caused a serious injury.

  • Tar Heels Victory-Show No Mercer Feb 12, 2013
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    Oh, you said '99. I thought you were referring to Laettners "Chest Stomping" incident, which was also not called.

  • MoDuke v2 is gone Feb 12, 2013
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    That reminds me of the '99 Championship game when the big white goon for UConn jumps up and comes down on Brand knocking him out of bounds with the ball on the baseline. No foul was called and the official gave Duke the ball out of bounds. No logical way that could be, but they did it on national TV, no less.

  • VT1994Hokie Feb 12, 2013
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    Totally agree TBK. I still believe that some coaches can get the calls over others. I have always believed that officials are just like all of us too. There is a bias in how we think about other people.

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 12, 2013
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    I think this is true even in a 1-point game, though. The refs don't want people saying they gave the game to one team or the other. So they just let it get settled on the court, and look the other way. And sometimes a team gets away with bloody murder.

  • VT1994Hokie Feb 12, 2013
    Sports Legend

    TBK made some valid points in this one. The lack of consistency from the start of a game to the end is evident in games in all basketball conferences. We see and hear all kinds of things on ESPN when the announcers talk about a questionable call. They will show this over and over. BC and Duke at the end was an example on how some officials hesitate, and miss a call. Some are over-ruled on accasion. Not many. Just my opinion, but I think some of the powerful coaches get the benefit in tight games. There is a fine line between a charge and a block, and it can change a game in a second or two. I saw this last night in the Kansas game, and the announcers even talked about this one several times. I also agree with unc70. When a game is out of reach, some officials simply let things go. They want to leave asap.

  • Leave it to Beaver Reruns Feb 12, 2013
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    hahahahaha....that's funny.

  • Unc r Hypocrits Feb 12, 2013
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    Not a last-second call, but, last night in the women's game between Duke and Maryland, there was a collision on the court. The whistles blew. One ref called a foul on the defense. Another came running in, saying it was a charge. After some discussion, it was ruled a travel. Go figure.

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 12, 2013
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    Hans' only position is to troll State fans. That's why I'm trying to trick him into leaving.

    I'm a hypocrite, Hans. Your work here is done. You can leave now.

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 12, 2013
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    OK, if I admit it will you leave this thread so the adults can talk?

  • StunGunn Feb 12, 2013
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    I see both sides, and I'm OK with either one, IF teams are aware of what will happen in the waning seconds of a game. The refs need to be consistent more than anything, IE: if they are going to "let them play" during the last seconds of a game, they should ALWAYS let them play. Therein lies the fly in the ointment: I don't think we'll see consistency from ref group to ref group. There were two non-ACC refs at the BC/Duke game who routinely swallow the whistle at the end of a game. The third ref - the one who might have actually blown his whistle wasn't in the area of the scrum.

  • StunGunn Feb 12, 2013
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    Have you checked our the Carolina page here? Plenty of trolls there as well.

  • SpartanDude Feb 12, 2013
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    I would agree with this sentiment. Most reasonable people can tell when referees consistently call a game. Those are the times when the officiating crew is noticeably under the crowd's radar. When good calls are made and in a manner that is obviously without bias, the teams and the audience focus on the plays of the game. Otherwise, when the refs inject themselves into the fray by letting hard fouls go uncalled then later calling ticky-tack fouls, the players are forced to change their strategies and the flow of the game becomes disrupted. However, they are supposed to call the game, I just want to see consistent application of the rules to both teams. When this happens, the team that is playing better will win.

  • jmcdow2792 Feb 12, 2013
    All Star

    I think it should be called the same way to the end of the game. Over the years I have seen several games that have been won or lost on a last second or even no time left free throw. The problem is that it is not consistently called the same way. Sometimes the refs let them play and sometimes it is called. Who is to know which way it will be when it is happening in real time. If it's a foul call it. The team doing the fouling should be penalized, not the team that didn't foul before the other one did.

  • Leave it to Beaver Reruns Feb 12, 2013
    Sports Legend

    I think refs get caught watching the game and not officiating it. No one wants to be the next Clougherty.

  • SpartanDude Feb 12, 2013
    Veteran

    It appears that Hans has no position regarding referees swallowing their whistles and how that may affect game outcomes. It seems to me that anyone who is a fan of any sport that is officiated by referees would be affected emotionally by poor calls made by refs during a game causing a negative outcome for that fan's team. I wonder if Hans really does care about any team around here. Poor Hans, he doesn't know how to emotionally commit to a team.

  • Hans Feb 12, 2013
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    Heh, heh, heh. There's everyone's favorite NON State alum.

    "That was different."

    Translation: But that affected STATE!

    Too funny, you fringers.

  • unc70 Feb 12, 2013
    Sports Legend

    There has always been a tendency of refs at all levels not to call fouls when the benches have been cleared late in the game. It was true decades ago when I was on the far end of the bench in high school. The refs probably just wanted it to be over. So did everyone else but the ten of us still on the court. The trouble was that you got hacked with no foul called, made to look even worse than you already were.

  • Wolfpackindahizzy4shizzy Feb 12, 2013
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    It has a rather limited repertoire.

    Bear with it.

  • Hans Feb 12, 2013
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    I'm just exposing your hypocrisy. As usual.

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 12, 2013
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    That was different. There were over 10 seconds left in that situation. So it doesn't compare. And it was the exact same foul that they called on State just moments before.

    Are you even going to TRY to contribute something to this conversation? Just about everybody else is. And you're just trolling. Come on man, at least TRY.

  • barthc98 Feb 12, 2013
    Veteran

    I can not agree that this is acceptable, if true. The rules are the rules, and perpetuating the idea that the rules essentially do not exist in the final seconds of a close game has potentially disastrous and dangerous consequences. Refs should NOT be thinking "well team A got a shot and therefore team B..." at ANY time in the game.... that simply is not the job! The job of the ref is to judge the action on the court AT THE TIME... NOT in context of some secret set of criteria known only to him.

    Being a ref might not be an easy job.... but the job is the job is the job. Perfection is impossible, but consistancy, with adherance to the rules of the game, is a mandatory intention.

  • jacamoe Feb 12, 2013
    All Star

    So even though we did in fact get the L, we WON the game in the eyes of God Almighty. I feel redeemed for that game by acknowledging the TRUTH!! Thank You. Now all the haters , just bring it. The only ACC team to REALLY beat the U.

  • Hans Feb 12, 2013
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    Uh, huh. So..... no whining on your part about a certain no-call in the ACC tournament last year, right?

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 12, 2013
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    LOL

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 12, 2013
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    This is why I'm OK with it.

  • blueduke4 Feb 12, 2013
    Sports Legend

    Keep it real Hans, some of us know you are true to yourself and your team, the red and white, the wolfpack. More leadership like you may be what this fanbase needs to turn this thing around.

  • Tar Heels Victory-Show No Mercer Feb 12, 2013
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    If it is the way that you say, then I will obviously have to deal with it also :)

  • blueduke4 Feb 12, 2013
    Sports Legend

    Let em play, never want a game decided by the zebras with only a couple seconds left. A good no call is always better than a ticky tack call IMO.

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 12, 2013
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    Don't flatter yourself, Hans. You didn't hurt MY feelings. I couldn't care less WHAT you think. I just wish you'd go troll somewhere else while the adults have a conversation.

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 12, 2013
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    Valid point, and I actually agree with you. I wish that is how it worked. I'm mainly just suggesting that this is how it APPEARS to work. We have three good examples here of refs swallowing their whistles. But I don't think it is happening to "hurt" any particular team. I think they are simply not wanting to get blamed for making what may be judged as a ticky-tack call that enabled a team to win a game. So I think they just let them play.

    I wish it wasn't this way, but I'm OK with it.

  • Hans Feb 12, 2013
    Sports Legend

    I didn't mean to bruise your ego, TBK. Your investigation was very impressive.

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 12, 2013
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    Ding ding ding! We have a winner -- first troll that showed up was HANS!

    Nobody saw THAT coming. I almost posted a comment suggesting that right about now is the time when Hans shows up with a troll comment. But I didn't want to derail the good thing we had going.

  • Tar Heels Victory-Show No Mercer Feb 12, 2013
    Sports Legend

    While it is your opinion, and I respect it, I do not agree with it. A foul is a foul and needs to be called regardless of the time it occurs. There should have been fouls called in both the State and Dook games. A team should not be punished for missing a shot. If you listen to any game, you hear the announcers say "Get the shot up with time for a rebound", if it is on the last posession of the game. It is not fair to punish one team, especially if the other team just shot free throws to take the lead.

  • Hans Feb 12, 2013
    Sports Legend

    Have you emailed Debbie or Gottfried? I mean, this is just a stunning discovery. If you play it right, you'll be able to retire next week!

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 12, 2013
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    Exactly.

    And so far, so good. Two people have posted besides me, and no trolling yet!

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 12, 2013
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    I'm hoping I worded this in such a way that the trolls won't feel the need to troll as much. I'm not complaining about the officiating, just observing.

    I actually think this is a very real phenomena, and teams that figure this out will have an advantage over teams that are expecting a last second call that isn't going to come.

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