WHY CAM WILL BE OUT OF FOOTBALL BY 2015
Toddler10-21 Dec 16, 12:51 p.m.
That's right B, because the playoffs are a entire new ballgame. Leave the regular season in the regular season!
MVP Lock? I also totally agree. Experts were saying without Benjamin Cam and the Panthers would be lucky to finish 7-9, but something is telling me that it will be Brady.
bishopdiamond5 Dec 16, 8:35 p.m.
Tom Brady is having an MVP season but the 13-0 record is the difference for me. I'd be surprised if Cam doesn't get it. He's earned it, imo.
StunGunn Dec 17, 7:13 p.m.
Totally hope you're right, B. T- I would agree, but there's been a lot of talk about Carson Palmer being right up there with Cam.
I hope Cam gets it, as he totally deserves it. He's improved as a player, as a teammate, but there are still haters out there.
I have a sinking feeling the Cats won't win the SB - it's a tough path having to beat Arizona and most likely Seattle to even get there, and most likely face Pretty Boy Brady. Again. I'm sick of Seattle. Much respect for RW, but still sick of Seattle.
For a game that looks like a cake walk by the score, that win against the DIRTY BIRDS was very costly, and I'm afraid that when they play in a week-and-a-half in Atlanta, they'll be out for blood. Or should I say more blood. Seven Panthers were injured in the first game, and I hope the Panthers have home field sewn up by that game, because I think Atlanta wants to spoil the party they won't be invited to for the Panthers.
bishopdiamond5 Dec 18, 6:35 a.m.
Carson Palmer is having an outstanding season as well, 31 TDs/9 picks, completing 65% of his passes, has a 107.2 rating, and has thrown for 4000 yards. I could go with that and Brady is Brady, 33 TDs/6 picks (insane), completing over 64% of his passes and has thrown for over 4100 yards & may go for 5000, so either of those 2 would be justified in getting MVP. If the Panthers were to stumble down the stretch, I'd go with Palmer or Brady. If they close with a better record than NE or the Cards, Newton gets it, imo.
Agree with ya...beating the Cards and 'Hawks will be a tall order in the playoffs. With the Panthers banged up right now, won't be surprised to see 'em get dumped in NY. The next guy is supposed to step up but that's easier said than done.
StunGunn Dec 19, 10:13 a.m.
B- Thanks for the stats - puts MVP in perspective.
For some reason, the G-Men have a history of beating the unbeaten late in the season, the best (IMHO) beating the unbeaten Pats in the SB. I know the saying "You are what your record says you are", but there was a wild stat recently that if the game was 75 seconds (SECONDS!!) shorter, the G-men would have been 10-2 instead of 4-8 or 3-9 (can't remember exactly), but they've lost so many games late in the 4th qtr. I think they'd love to knock off the Panthers, as would all teams now.
Chasing perfection is one thing, but I think everyone can agree that getting that ring means a lot more.
sweet D Dec 20, 4:32 p.m.
Panthers dodged that bullet!
one more win clinches home field atw to the super bowl
StunGunn Dec 21, 11:38 a.m.
Horrible, horrible game. Shame on the officials for not ejecting Beckham. Norman is fortunate not to have been seriously injured with the beating he took. Playing to win is one thing; playing to injure is just wrong.
bishopdiamond5 Dec 21, 4:37 p.m.
Gotta blame the coaching staffs and the refs for not getting a handle on that situation. Prime example of what happens when trash talk spins out of control. I thought both players should have been ejected/benched. That whole thing turned into a sideshow.....total lack of discipline.
StunGunn Dec 21, 4:55 p.m.
I may be looking through Panther blue glasses, but Beckham was the instigator and aggressor and therefore should have been the player to get bounced. Norman is no choir boy, and he deserves part of the blame. I think the officials deserve to be suspended right along with Beckman. Coughlin claiming he "wasn't aware" of the three personal fouls called against Beckman is insulting to anyone with two eyes that function.
Bottom line: it's a shame that the attention is being paid to the clown behavior of Beckman instead of the solid play of Cam.
Tough road ahead for the Cats. They won't beat better teams when they blow 28-point leads.
bishopdiamond5 Dec 21, 7:56 p.m.
Beckham should have been tossed after the helmet-to-helmet but Norman didn't help matters with the pregame baseball bat stuff. Agree with ya that the sideshow stuff takes away from the positives that were taking place. Glad to see #13 get suspended but Norman is hardly a victim in all of this. If he keeps that stuff up, he's gonna hurt 'em in a big game.
Just an fyi....Deion Sanders has already come out & said Norman had a bat prior to the game threatening to end Beckham's career. There is more to the story than what happened during the game and, if Sander's comment is accurate, Norman should be suspended as well. The NFL has some investigating to do.....
StunGunn Dec 22, 6:11 a.m.
Wow - the story I saw on ESPN said that the Panthers bring the bat to games - they even showed Benweikere with it at the game against Atlanta - for "motivation", but if Norman threatened Beckman, I agree he needs to be suspended as well. Norman's mouth will get him in trouble, which is a shame, because he is one of the best corners in the NFL.
I was surprised at how Norman and Beckham went at each other from the start because the reports were that they were both quiet in the week leading up to the game, which is in stark contrast to Norman and Julio Jones' jab-jawing in the week leading up to their game with the Falcons.
Norman needs to realize he isn't helping his team with his antics. He's a free agent after this year, and I heard his salary demands will be far more than the Panthers can/will spend. His talents will be missed for sure. I hope he keeps his head on straight for the remainder of the season.
bishopdiamond5 Dec 22, 10:31 a.m.
+1.....The Panthers are claiming they bring the bat to games to represent, "bringing the wood". What next, guns? Maybe they can tell us it represents, "bringing the heat". lol I saw somebody with the Panthers walk across the field with a bat and point it at the Giants as they were running on to the field. The dude who did that was not dressed for the game. They need to leave the bat at home...doubt any of 'em know how to swing it anyway. :)
Ya know, I've really wanted to support the Panthers, and then I see 'em doing stuff like this and it turns me against them as an organization because others from above allow it to happen. I can't go for that and it's not the first time they've had players with character issues. The Giants are also claiming certain Panthers were using homophobic slurs as well. There are certain lines you can't cross & a little winning has gone to the heads of certain players, it would appear. We'll know soon enough...
bishopdiamond5 Dec 22, 10:54 a.m.
As talented as #24 is, he's a loose cannon. Rivera didn't single him out after the game (they generally don't) but 'appeared' to be directing his comments at #24 regarding the lack of focus. Then again, after botching a lead like that, they appeared to have focus issues all over the field. I get that you back your players/teammates, but it reaches a point where you have to stop the BS because it's detrimental to the team. They need to get #24 under control before the playoffs. The longer it goes, the worse it'll get down the road.
StunGunn Dec 22, 11:04 a.m.
Agree about the bat - leave it in the locker room if you have to bring it. I heard it was a player from the practice squad who brought it out onto the field. That's crossing a line IMHO. "Getting into heads" of opponents and trash talk is one thing, but leave the bat at home. I like the "Keep Pounding" mantra better.
I heard yesterday that some teams feel the Panthers have gotten Coocky (mods), so in addition to wanting to be "the" team that beats the unbeaten, their perceived attitude of the Panthers gives them extra motivation. The Panthers seem pretty blue collar to me. They're not like the Pats - they don't have that kind of history of winning. I do agree about them having players with character issues in the past. The guys on this team seem like solid citizens, for the most part. Agree about Norman being a loose canon. His mouth will get him into trouble if he doesn't tone it down.
Enjoy your input, B!
bishopdiamond5 Dec 22, 11:36 a.m.
Gunny, it's always a pleasure going back & forth with you, T, and a select few others who have the ability to look at the facts for what they are, and comment accordingly.
Really was an avid Packers fan for a long time until the Favre stuff in '07 - followed them through the lean years and there were many. #4 was not perfect but I thought their treatment of him at the end was pathetic. Posted this before but I went a couple of years w/o a team (2008/2009), tried pulling for the 'Skins (most of my friends/family are 'Skins/Cowboys fans) but don't care for their owner (he gets his $$$$$ and he's happy with that - fans are getting ripped off, imo), and while I hope the Panthers do well, the obnoxious behavior gets in the way for me. Football is an emotional game but the 2 minute, rehearsed celebrations get old in a hurry.
Enjoy your input as well, Gunny!
mittnfriends Dec 22, 11:48 a.m.
Who really believes Odell felt threatened by the baseball bat or homophobic slurs? It was his ego that was threatened. If he wasn't up against an undefeated team with an outspoken corner, and didn't start the day with a dropped TD pass, he wouldn't have wasted 3 quarters of the game trying to injure Josh Norman. The worst thing Norman did was a half-hearted tossing of Odell to the ground - Odell clearly exaggerated the fall.
You can argue about the bat and slurs all you want, but you must also consider how the Panthers responded to an opposing player repeatedly attempting to injure one of their own. No one was sent to take Odell out and the players stepped up and kept Norman under control. That speaks volumes to the character of that organization.
I wonder if all that drama helped some of the Cam haters put things into perspective. Mistakes made as a 19 year old? Sulking? Dancing? Psh!
mittnfriends Dec 22, 11:49 a.m.
Though the game was downright silly, between the Odell drama and the squandered 28 point lead; I think it served as a invaluable teaching moment.
How about that guy, Cam Newton, though? He put up another MVP-caliber performance. His 1,000+ yard rusher was inactive, but it didn't matter; he racked up 100 yards by himself in the midst of throwing for 340 and 5 TDs. Steadily breaking records. For as great as Palmer, Brady and Wilson are playing; they still don't stack up to what Cam is doing.
mittnfriends Dec 22, 12:03 p.m.
Y'all definitely have a point about Norman's attitude/conduct, but it's been an issue for some dating back to last season. He hasn't changed since then, and he's one of the main reasons the Panthers are 14-0.
Let's say Norman hadn't gotten under Odell's skin so bad; for all we know, Odell could've been productive in the first 3 quarters and the Giants may not have had to crawl back from 28 down.
Toddler10-21 Dec 22, 1:12 p.m.
Lost respect for Coughlin. He admitted he left him in because of a win. He could have really injured himself and Norman. Did anyone see where he put his fingers in Normans mouth? I think back in the old schools days he might have been minus a couple.
Cam said I got this before the last drive. MVP!! Keep Pounding Panthers!
Did anyone watch the Steelers/Broncos? Defense played Steel Curtain shut out defense in the second half. AB, AB, AB. Pay the man Mr. Rooney!!!
bishopdiamond5 Dec 22, 1:29 p.m.
Who said Beckham 'really' felt threatened, aside from Beckham & the Giants? Are you really trying to justify having a player walk around with a bat while pointing it at others, even if he doesn't know how to swing it? Hilarious! Surprised to see a guy like you downplaying slurs. Figured you'd be all over that. Wait a second....doesn't fit the agenda.
Kept Norman under control? Yep....glad to see the Panthers get Norman under control during Week 15, maintain their focus, etc., and close with an uneventful, lopsided win over the Giants. lol
Speaking of drama, that's in response to all of the absurd behavior I see taking place around the league. Bottom line.....most of the fans I know could care less about the drama created by certain players on any given Sunday. Not gonna support stupid behavior today, tomorrow, or ever. Besides, if I want to see some serious dancing, I'll go to Pure Gold.
bishopdiamond5 Dec 22, 1:33 p.m.
Agreed but 2 of the players you mentioned have 5 rings between 'em. Newton is having an incredible season but he still has some work to do. MVP is in the bag.
bishopdiamond5 Dec 22, 1:38 p.m.
There was probably more to his decision than winning and losing. I have a feeling the Giants were ticked off, decided to let it go once the game reached a certain point. Doesn't matter....lots of folks dropped the ball Sunday, starting with the players. After that, the refs and coaches have to get control and they didn't.
mittnfriends Dec 22, 2:54 p.m.
The bat really isn't a big deal. You have nearly 60 big, bad football players on each sideline who all understand that if a weapon is used to fight, the person with the weapon will be lucky to make it out alive. Bottom line, no one is going to swing that bat.
You are adamant about wins/losses being the ultimate measuring stick; so, I thought you would be behind the idea that if you're the only undefeated team in week 15 you get a pass on questionable things like the bat.
Slurs? I need a little more than heresay from a guy who throws puches on the field and doubles back and torpedoes a defenseless player.
Dancing? Lighten up! It's benign. I don't see anyone doing it mid-play, so what is it hurting other than your want to maintain tradition?
StunGunn Dec 22, 3:50 p.m.
I lost respect for Coughlin when he said he "wasn't aware that Beckham had three personal fouls". NOT AWARE?? He's a micro-manager, and how could he miss the 15-yard "gifts" Beckham kept giving the Panthers? Coughlin should take ownership for his punk player.
I understand why he'd leave Beckman in the game. It's the Ref's job to bounce him, and they didn't even flag all of his hits on Norman, let alone toss him.
I blame Beckman, and the Refs the most, and then Coughlin for not bothering to even speak to Beckman himself - he had his receivers coach do that.
At the end of the day, this game made the Giants and the NFL look very bad. But here we are all talking about it, so maybe they know what they're doing.
StunGunn Dec 22, 3:56 p.m.
It is a shame that all the talk has been about the shenanigans that took place during the game, and very little talk about Cam's performance. A few talking heads have at least admitted Cam is in the lead for MVP (and some of those talking heads used to argue that Cam's numbers weren't "good enough" to be the MVP.
I think Cam handled the whole situation very well. Erin Andrews did her best to get Cam to comment about the Beckman/Norman situation, but all Cam did was smile, and he refrained from saying anything inflammatory. He didn't take the bait at all, and good for him!
bishopdiamond5 Dec 22, 4:08 p.m.
Tell it to the Giants! It's stupid to bring a bat on the field and make it a point to wave it at opposing players as you approach them.
Wins and losses ARE the ultimate measuring stick. And no, a dude walking around with a bat while pointing it at the opposition does not get a pass.
About the 'slurs' thing....it has been reported by certain individuals who are a little closer to the situation than you & me. Think I'll go with their take on this since they were there.
Lighten up? Why would I want to do that? Can't remember the last time I heard dudes exclaim, "Can't wait to see ol' Cam dance in the end zone. Love seeing me some Cam dance. Love seeing me some Toll Booth dance. Dance the night away, boys, and forget the football. Let's dance! Dance! Dance! Dance! Show me some dancing! Play me some Leo Sayer!"
I'm only interested in wins/losses, titles, stats, and the natural emotions involved. The rest belongs in a circus.
mittnfriends Dec 22, 4:38 p.m.
No, you don't hear people say that. The dancing is but a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of what goes on during an NFL game. It, nearly every time, happens after the whistle has blown. It is an expression of one's joy and is entertaining for countless number of fans. You can be all about the X's and O's, mental and physical toughness, etc. and still embrace the dancing.
Your gripe over the non-issue is antiquated. Perhaps my response(s) are equally pointless.
Slurs - B, I'm not trying to be argumentative here - do you really think hurled slurs are out of the ordinary for an NFL game? Not to mention, your same sources would be lying if they said Odell isn't a weekly perpetrator of slur-slinging.
bishopdiamond5 Dec 22, 5:25 p.m.
What about the joy of winning consistently versus the "flash in the pan" routine? Looks like "me me me" stuff for the most part. No offense, Mitt, but I would prefer to see my fav. players/team focused on winning and winning often....embracing the big picture (SB) versus the numerous little V-dances after every score.
Antiquated gripe? Nope...I've seen many situations where players were engaging in their little dances while they were getting hammered, or having a bad season as a team. Looks very foolish at times and shows a total lack of understanding. It's called keeping your eye on the prize. If it's something quick that doesn't last the length of a commercial, it's not as annoying.
I'm certain slurs are tossed around often during an NFL game. My comments aren't meant to defend Beckham, just to point out that #24 is hardly innocent in this. Takes discipline/focus to be a 'consistent' winner.
mittnfriends Dec 22, 5:42 p.m.
Dance, B, Dance!
mittnfriends Dec 22, 5:43 p.m.
bishopdiamond5 Dec 22, 5:49 p.m.
That's nice....got any evidence of any SB rings?
carolinadreaming Dec 22, 7:17 p.m.
Well the good thing in all of this is everyone is ok. The hit that Beckham put on Norman could have ended his career and his life.
The refs should have taken control of the game early when Norman threw Beckham to the ground. Norman should have got a unnecessary roughness penalty for that.
Other than that Norman did what many good corners do which is play physical and talk trash to get inside an opponents head. It's been reported that Odell Beckham is one of the biggest trash talkers in the league. I think him dropping that initial touchdown pass and then going up against a good corner who talks just as much trash got to him and caused him to snap.
The stuff that happened before the game the baseball bat, threats etc is nothing new in the game of football and Odell has experienced it many times before especially playing for a college like LSU where he had to go play in Alabama, Mississippi etc
carolinadreaming Dec 22, 7:21 p.m.
Hopefully both learned something. Josh Norman likes to play on the edge and sometimes he briefly crosses it. Going forward maybe he will keep himself in check.
Beckham should learn not to let words of his opponents get to him because he is giving them what they want when his mind is distracted and not on the game.
bishopdiamond5 Dec 22, 9:00 p.m.
Not sure how many former SEC players came at him waving a bat, but agree with the rest of your assessment. Have to admit, it was one of the biggest cheap shots I've ever seen. No place for an unexpected ear hole shot in the NFL. From what I've read, the refs approached the coaches at some point during the game. Not sure why since it's their job to keep things from spinning out of control. The refs are there to enforce the rules, not cater to coaches/players and hope it works out. Did see where bats have now been banned.
bishopdiamond5 Dec 22, 9:57 p.m.
Some positive news - congrats to the 10 Panthers who made the Pro Bowl, especially the first-timers.
carolinadreaming Dec 23, 8:14 a.m.
I wasn't referring to specifically waving a bat but making threats to end his career or injure him with a legal/illegal hit. Ask any former football player high school, college, nfl etc and they will tell you a lot of threats are made before and during a game by other players.
I watched the game and they mentioned during the live game that the refs warned both teams and you could see after that both Cam Newton and Luke Kuechly were talking with Norman on the bench to try to get him to calm down and he did for the the most part after that.
No leaders on the Giants spoke to Odell and I think that's part of the reason he continued with his behavior. Coughlin whose supposedly this hard nosed coach that's all about discipline turned his head and Eli Manning is not considered an outspoken leader so he did nothing as well.
carolinadreaming Dec 23, 8:21 a.m.
I can't believe this is going to be Thomas Davis first pro bowl I'm happy for him. It seems like he has played at a high level for so long it's good that he is finally getting the recognition that he deserves.
StunGunn Dec 23, 8:24 a.m.
Yes! Getting 10 players in the Pro Bowl is terrific. I hope none go, though, due to the Panthers playing in the SB the following week!
carolinadreaming Dec 23, 8:46 a.m.
All of the previous teams that have started 14-0 have made it to the super bowl so I hope the panthers can continue that streak!
StunGunn Dec 23, 9:18 a.m.
Agree about Thomas Davis! So deserving of the invite to the Pro Bowl.
This is a very special Panthers team, this kind of chemistry is rare, so I'm really hoping it's their year to win it all. I don't think we'll see the same roster next year due to free agency and Kalil and Davis aren't getting any younger.
bishopdiamond5 Dec 23, 1:02 p.m.
Gotcha, CD! Agree with ya....some football players are known for popping off at the mouth. Just a part of the game. Nice to see Luke & Cam do what leaders are supposed to do.
bishopdiamond5 Dec 23, 1:06 p.m.
I was surprised to see that it is his first. TD is rock solid and should have been selected before now, imo. Glad to see him get the recognition he deserves. Heck of an accomplishment given the 3 ACL tears.
bishopdiamond5 Dec 23, 1:09 p.m.
That would be nice, Gunny. Hope they get 'em a ring. Given the season they've had, they deserve it.
StunGunn Dec 23, 3:23 p.m.
Drama aside, this really is a special team. Cam has really matured and developed his skills and become a good teammate. Players like Olsen, Kuechly, Davis, Harper, Cotchery, and well, you get the picture, are a great group of guys with remarkable chemistry. Beating teams like Seattle and Arizona make the road to the SB a tough one. Then they may have to face Brady if they make it to the SB. Would love to see 'em avenge their loss to the Pats in their last SB appearance.
Best wishes to you and your family for a very Merry Christmas, B. So glad we have this forum to discuss real sports. I may sneak in some Carolina stuff here in the future. The State/Carolina/Duke forums are a mess.
bishopdiamond5 Dec 23, 6:54 p.m.
Well said, Gunny! The 2015 version of the Panthers is definitely a very special group of players. Cam wasn't playing all that well early but making the plays when he had to. He turned it on down the stretch, got hot, and will likely be MVP. Very good point about their team chemistry. The playoffs are always tough but if they win it, they will have earned it. The Norman thing was a minor bump in the road that has likely been addressed behind closed doors at this point.
Patriots/Brady - as the Nature Boy used to say, "To be the Man, you gotta beat the Man", and Brady is the man, and the best ever, imo. Montana is in the discussion but Brady's career is off the charts.
The Heels will be fine if they can stay healthy. Injuries can be one big pain in the backside. With that said, it's UNC hoops...they usually find a way to get it done.
Always a pleasure, Gunny, and wishing you and your family a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
carolinadreaming Dec 23, 8:02 p.m.
Yeah not to mention the offensive coordinator Mike Shula and defensive coordinator Sean McDermott names are already been tossed around as hot commodities for whatever coaching jobs open up I think after this season the panthers may lose some of the cohesion they have had for the past years.
I hope the panthers win it all this year too so everyone that leaves can leave on a high note.
StunGunn Dec 24, 7:55 a.m.
Yes - so true about the OC and DC! I hate the thought of them leaving, but with so many teams doing poorly, you know they'll be going after the Panthers' coaches. McDermott has already said he'd love to be a HC. The price of success, I guess. In line with that, I'm glad that the Heels have managed to keep Fedora and Chizik (at least for now!)
carolinadreaming Dec 24, 4:05 p.m.
I hate the thought of them leaving too but it will be a great opportunity for them if they do decide to become head coaches. I will still root for them to do well as long as they aren't going up against the panthers.
Chizik is a great coach and I don't know why Auburn got rid of him just two years after he won a national championship. But I guess it worked out for the Heels because their defense definitely took a big step forward when he became the DC.
StunGunn Dec 26, 8:26 p.m.
@ Auburn letting Chizik go: I read/heard it was NCAA violations. UNC's decision to hire him was questioned due to their own issues regarding NCAA violations, and the hire was considered very questionable. Chizik turned out to be a fantastic hire for the Heels!
Keeping my fingers crossed the Panthers beat the Dirty Birds. I'm afraid Atlanta will be out for blood (literally) and out to injure as they were the last game two weeks ago.
mittnfriends Dec 27, 4:08 p.m.
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