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  • bishopdiamond5 Dec 1, 7:42 p.m.
    Towel Boy

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    I'm a Manning fan, Gunny, but the name of the game is winning. Would hate to be the one making that decision, but #18 needs to sit going forward. For the longest time, he was one of the best. Now, he's just getting in the way, & Elway and the Broncos know it. He wanted Favre's record but he's paying a price for it.

  • bishopdiamond5 Dec 1, 7:37 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    View quoted thread

    Gotta come clean on Peyton, T. When you & I were having our debates on Peyton, I was playing Devil's Advocate at times. He's a great regular season QB and one of the best to ever play. Peyton is still one of my favorites, but he's had issues in the playoffs, which you've pointed out. I'm with ya 100% regarding his performance come playoff time. I do think he's one of the best to ever play, just not "the greatest". That claim goes to those who won multiple SBs while playing well in the process. When #18 comes back healthy, what do ya do? I don't think he should start at this point - stats are beyond bad. If I saw his numbers w/o his name attached to them, I'd say sit him. I wasn't going for the injury stuff either when I saw his numbers.

    Had a feeling he was hanging around just to pass Favre in passing yardage. Wish he had gone out before he lost it.

  • StunGunn Dec 1, 6:57 p.m.
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread

    That will be a tough game for your Steelers, but your guys are capable of getting the win. DeAngelo Williams is having a great year for your team. He always seemed to be injured while he was at Carolina.

    Tough to bench Peyton, but Kubiack likes the way Osweiler can run his offense better.

    At the end of the day, Sir Charles was right: Father Time is undefeated. Still hate to see it for players like Peyton and Kobe.

  • Toddler10-21 Dec 1, 3:50 p.m.
    Sports Legend

    Hold it Gunny that 40 year old plays my Steelers Sunday night. I hear you about Peyton, but do you go with your heart and respect or do you go with who gives you the best chance to win? Troy Polamalu is bitter with the Rooney's because he felt like he was forced out. It happened also with Rod Woodson. A lot of times the older Vet's want loyalty, but at the end of the day its about winning! Everyone thought Elway was done, but he came back and won back to back super bowls. Tough decision!!!

  • StunGunn Dec 1, 1:57 p.m.
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread

    There's been a lot of talk about the QB debate in Denver. How do you bench a legend like Manning, but how do you not put in the QB who gives you the best chance to win? I'd make a lousy GM - I'd go with my heart and put Peyton in. But then again, If I was the GM at Indy, I'd have kept him and let another team get "Luck-y". Do love seeing old man Hasselbeck going 4-0 for the Colts, though. Let's hear it for the 40-year-olds!

  • Toddler10-21 Dec 1, 1:01 p.m.
    Sports Legend

    Hey B you know our Peyton debates over the past. Peyton wasn't taken out of his last game because he was hurt, it was the 4 picks. 9 TD's passes and 17 picks for the year. I don't think anyone knew he had a bad foot. I heard today that it had been hurting for weeks. Really? What will Elway and the HC do when Peyton gets healthy especially if they are still winning? I really think that father time has really caught up with him just like Kobe. If he is 100% healthy what do you do? Its really hard for the great ones to say that the time has come! I think he deserves one final shot when he is healthy!

  • StunGunn Nov 29, 5:32 p.m.
    Sports Legend

    Agree with you guys about Cotchery. He's a veteran player and his experience has proven to be a very valuable asset to the Panthers. I also like watching Roman Harper play. Not much tread left, but his poise and experience has been a big plus this season.

    I really hope the Panthers find a way to pay Josh Norman next year. Guy is a beast and fun to watch.

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 29, 10:50 a.m.
    Towel Boy

    View quoted thread

    Agreed, GT! He's made some big catches for the Panthers this season and it's nice to see him being a factor. With #13 going down, as a group, they had to change their way of thinking and they did. Very nice team effort by Cotch & the rest, and nice job by Cam keeping everybody in the game.

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 29, 10:42 a.m.
    Towel Boy

    View quoted thread

    Agree with ya about the Pats. Much respect as well and they are currently the Kings of the NFL. Is what it is. Like you, I'm tired of seeing them win all the time. lol

    Hopefully, the Panthers will be the team to replace them at the top.

  • GT Scored on their first drive! Nov 29, 10:23 a.m.
    Towel Boy

    View quoted thread

    He is the X factor for the receiving crew. Always making the tough catches and getting clutch first downs. I've changed his nickname from crotchery to clutchery. Great story of a guy who has made a long career in the NFL who is not a household name, especially at the receiver position. Glad to have him on the team and hope he gets a well deserved ring.

  • StunGunn Nov 28, 9:36 p.m.
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread

    Your Steelers are pretty beat up, but you never know. I don't like the Pats, but they're undefeated despite all the injuries. Would love to see the Panthers win it all, but I don't think it will happen. Seattle isn't having a Seattle-like year, so hope your guys can get the win tomorrow.

    Sounds like your daughter has a good plan with lots of good schools on her list. I remember when she was a freshman at UNC! Wow! Bet you're very proud of her!

  • Toddler10-21 Nov 28, 3:17 p.m.
    Sports Legend

    Much respect for the Patriots organization, but I really don't want to see them in the super bowl again. Steelers/Panthers and you know who I'm pulling for. I'm worried about us in Seattle tomorrow. Sorry Gunny! There is no team in the NFC I would like to see besides the Panthers. keep pounding Panthers!

  • Toddler10-21 Nov 28, 3:12 p.m.
    Sports Legend

    She has applied for grad school, (UNC, Vandy, Fla. Int., and South Fla.) hope its UNC so she can stay close to home. She attended a internship at Morehouse over the summer. These past four years has flown by.

    Gunny something is telling me the Pack will pull it out today. Clemson just doesn't impress me as being the number team in the country. I just saw Chuck Nevitt. Avery friendly guy!

  • StunGunn Nov 28, 2:34 p.m.
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread

    Hey T!

    I can say it in this forum (I hope). As much ad I hate it (and I do!) I think your first prediction is correct. State is a matchup nightmare for my Heels. Keeping my fingers crossed the Heels ein.

    Congrats to your daughter! Can't believe she's a senior!! What are her plans after graduation? Best of luck to her!

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 28, 1:35 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    View quoted thread

    LOL......T, I hope you're right about the Broncos game and that could very well happen. Would really enjoy a Denver/Carolina SB, with the Panthers taking the prize. Hope it happens....nothing against the Steelers, btw. Great organization...

  • Toddler10-21 Nov 28, 1:07 p.m.
    Sports Legend

    Sweet D Cotchery is did the same thing for Ben while in Pittsburgh, just a reliable 3rd down tough receiver. Whoa B the Patriots haven't made it to the bowl yet. LOL! Peyton is down, but their backup has been watching Peyton for 3 years now. Plus they have the best D in the NFL. You have got to pressure Brady. I smell a upset Sunday night.

    Hey Gunny I went to my daughters class ring ceremony last Sunday and she has only 3 more classes left. I told her that the Pack will beat UNC Saturday and UNC will beat Clemson for the title. She told me to go away. LOL!

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 28, 12:28 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    View quoted thread

    Thanks, Gunny! Always enjoyed your insight as well, along with a few others. The forum has pretty much turned into a joke. An occasional jab isn't so bad, but the constant 3rd grade stuff is over the top and gets old in a hurry.

  • StunGunn Nov 28, 11:28 a.m.
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread

    Well said as usual, B.

    I'm really enjoying watching the Cats play this season. Cam continues to mature and his decisions and play are improving as well.

    Josh Norman is fun to watch! I read his price tag will be more than the Panthers will ante up for and I hope that's not the case because he's worth every penny he'll demand on the market.

    I'd love to see the Panthers win the SB this year, but that will be tough. That said, they seem to be a team of destiny and week after week they find a way to win, ugly or not.

    I still read the State and Carolina forums, but don't post because it's mostly the same old same old. I was very glad to see you back because you know your sports and your intelligent posts are informative and refreshing. Glad to see Toddler back as well. Keep posting!

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 28, 8:34 a.m.
    Towel Boy

    View quoted thread

    +1....Welcome back, Gunny! Jerry Jones and the Cowboys are getting what they deserve...it's called karma. Agree with Toddler about the Jimmy Johnson thing.

    The Panthers seem to be on a mission this season. Luke is a beast, has tremendous skills and instincts, high football IQ, closes in a hurry, plays the pass well, etc., and that's why he's the best in the business. Ealy and Short are playing good and Norman is looking like the best CB in the NFL. And TD is TD, very good and very consistent. AJ Klein has done a good job in his role also, and Coleman is doing a nice job.

    Glad to see the Big Cat let Hardy go when he did, as he should have. The dude is a cancer and it shows. Glad to see the Panthers playing well and would like to see 'em KO the Patriots in the SB.

  • StunGunn Nov 28, 7:27 a.m.
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    Hardy referred to the Panthers as a "nameless, faceless" team. LOL. The D on that "nameless, faceless" team beat his team convincingly. Kuechly played one of his best games, and loved watching him score his first TD on the first of his back-to-back INT's.

    Enjoyed reading this intelligent debate. Doesn't happen enough here.

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 28, 1:42 a.m.
    Towel Boy

    View quoted thread


  • sweet D Nov 27, 11:18 p.m.
    Bench Warmer

    How about the Jerricho Cotchery renaissance? he seems to be one Cam likes to go to in the clutch......runs precise routes, good hands, blocks on running plays.....the cagey vet!

  • Toddler10-21 Nov 27, 12:51 p.m.
    Sports Legend

    Two straight blowout losses on thanksgiving day for the girls. Americas team? LMAO! Will Jerry ever admit he misses Jimmy? Keep pounding Panthers unless you play the Steelers!

  • GT Scored on their first drive! Nov 27, 10:53 a.m.
    Towel Boy


  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 27, 7:43 a.m.
    Towel Boy

    I heard Greg Hardy played for the Cowboys, watched the game yesterday, and never heard his name called. Wasn't Hardy running the Panthers down earlier in the week?

    Heck of a game by the D...nice win on the road. Thought the Cowboys would have had a better showing on Thanksgiving day.

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 26, 10:45 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    Anybody see Greg Hardy today?

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 22, 5:23 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    View quoted thread

    Funchess seems to be finding his groove, glad to see Bersin get some time, and Olsen hasn't missed a game since his rookie season unless I misunderstood the guys calling the game. Really impressed with Cam getting everybody involved - best way to keep 'em all focused & happy. Happy players = good team chemistry.

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 22, 5:12 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    Nice effort by the Panthers...5 different players caught a TD pass - very good distribution by #1, #28 went for over a 100, 21st consecutive game rushing for over 100 yards as a team, 31 1st half points which is a team record, Cam had his best day in the TD department (5), and the D dominated the 'Skins. Big game coming up...

  • mittnfriends Nov 22, 2:52 p.m.

    View quoted thread

    Yes! Funchess' continued progress is great. There was even a Bersin siting! Let's hope Olsen is okay.

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 22, 2:49 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    Heck of a game by Cam in the 1st half. Hitting different receivers, Stew is running hard, D playing well, etc.

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 22, 9:57 a.m.
    Towel Boy

    View quoted thread

    Cam's way is working, and that's nice to see. I think the genuine concern has always been how he would hold up to NFL hits, especially since he's taken more of 'em than any other QB in the NFL since his first season. I look at that the same way I look at approaches to winning at the MLB level. Personally, I would prefer a rock solid lineup of "rakers", with the ability to score runs with 1 swing of the bat. However, there are those who prefer pitching/defense, and an opportunistic offense, or teama/players capable of manufacturing runs as needed. My point....you can win using different approaches and that is the beauty of sports. Doesn't really matter how ya get there, as long as ya get there. And Cam & the Panthers are winning....

  • Toddler10-21 Nov 21, 12:39 p.m.
    Sports Legend

    Cam is still hanging in there by a thread D!!! LOL!!

  • sweet D Nov 20, 6:58 p.m.
    Bench Warmer

    hey guys, is Cam out of football, yet?


  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 20, 6:33 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    View quoted thread

    Agree with ya about Peyton and TB. TB has 4 rings though, which obviously puts him in some elite company. Speaking of TB, I enjoy listening to him and the others on Sunday. They're very informative and entertaining. The '70s Steelers were a very special group, no doubt, and had some serious weapons on those teams. Name a player from those teams & he's a HOF'er.

    Brady - agreed! Opposing teams have to keep up the pressure or he'll pick 'em apart. You know what they say, T? Easier said than done but that's the plan. AR definitely misses Nelson and his 98 grabs/1500 yards. Plus, I saw where #12 has been playing hurt...?

    Curry - really like him & he's in a class by himself. Liked his dad when he was tossing them in for the Hornets years ago. Curry has the fastest gun/release in the NBA. Also like the fact that he played for Davidson (small school). Speaking of the Spurs, always liked Duncan - HOF'er and a class act, (5 rings)

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 20, 5:56 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    View quoted thread

    Had he played for those great Bulls and Lakers teams of the past, I'm sure his ranking would be much more favorable.

  • Toddler10-21 Nov 20, 1:00 p.m.
    Sports Legend

    Kobe top ten don't think many would argue that. As you know we have been back and forth with the Peyton opinions, but he has been a class act. I think he won't be in anyone's top 3 because of his playoff record. I think the reason why Bradshaw isn't in anyone's top 5 is because of the team he was on. HOF defense, with Swann, Stallworth, Franco, Blier etc.. The only way you beat Brady is constant pressure like the Giants did in those 2 super bowls. Rogers misses Jordy Nelson big time! Also Curry, Curry, Curry. WOW!! I love to watch him play, but my favorite player in the NBA is Kwahi Leonard from the Spurs. Just a quiet ball player that gets the job done. Reminds me so much of Scottie Pippen.

  • mittnfriends Nov 20, 11:33 a.m.

    "I'd put the guy in Cleveland in the top 20...maybe. lol".

    Would you give a more favorable ranking if, let's say, he had a chance to play with Pippen and Rodman in their primes or Shaq and Gasol in their primes? Lol.

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 19, 8:03 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    View quoted thread

    Meant to say considered "the best" - that would be Brady or Montana, with the Discount Double-Check guy as a strong possibility down the road.

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 19, 7:59 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    Peyton is one of the best ever, but he should never be in the "best" conversations due to his playoff troubles. I knew he wanted Favre's passing yardage record but man....talk about waking up one day & not being able to compete (stats are crazy bad). Peyton is one of my all-time favs, a class act, etc., but it's time for him to move on. Just hate to see him go out this way.

    Kobe is right up there with the rightful owner of #23,....MJ.
    Saw where he has been having some issues shooting the ball although he's still scoring around 17 pts a game, but well off his career pace. Nobody beats Father Time and nobody ever will. He still has a game, just not the dominant player he once was. I'd still give MJ the edge as greatest of all-time, with Kobe up there as well, although there are a few others that should get some serious consideration. (Magic, Larry Legend, Kareem, Russell, Wilt etc.) I'd put the guy in Cleveland in the top 20...maybe. lol

  • Toddler10-21 Nov 19, 1:27 p.m.
    Sports Legend

    TO no way Mitt. Agree with B he was all about TO. No matter what Cam does a lot just don't like him. I think it comes from his college background. Really some things need to be left in the past. Hey B only thing wrong with Peyton is father time just like Kobe. Two of the best of all time!

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 19, 6:38 a.m.
    Towel Boy

    Agree with ya and like your list of players with the exception of TO. Thought he was too much of a cancer. I could see the Panthers having problems in Dal (if Romo is playing), NY, & ATL, with no guarantee in NO. Hope they run the table but won't be surprised if they close at 13-3 (14-2 would be nice). If that happens, it's been a great season just the same, but the final stretch is not gonna be easy with 4 of 7 on the road.

  • mittnfriends Nov 19, 12:08 a.m.

    Optimistic me; They'll have a one loss regular season... that loss coming against either the Cowboy's, Giants, or Falcons. Then, they'll go on to beat the Pats in the SB.

    Pessimistic me; They'll end up losing 2-3 games in the regular season... coming at the hands of 2 or 3 of the aforementioned teams. They'll then go on to lose to either AZ or GB in the NFC championship game.

    I can honestly say I'm a fan of every team to some degree. Pre- Cam Newton, if one were to ask me who my favorite NFL team was; I would usually say I don't have one, but I'm rooting for whichever team has Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Brett Favre or Tony Gonzalez. Once the Panthers drafted Cam, I knew the home team had something special and I believe they'll be my team well beyond the Cam era. Cam-Kuechly-Davis-Olsen-Benjamin-Norman era is, I hope, more like it.

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 18, 7:36 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    OK, Mitt....give us a prediction on the Panther's final reg. season record.


    Are you a Pats fan? Just curious.....

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 18, 7:33 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    "Bishop and Todd know all too well that you're not talking to one of those folks."

    Blind devotion will do that to a fan.

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 18, 7:24 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    "Yes, we should ask the Titans player who actually confronted Cam during said incident. The same player had no problem doing a jig after merely sacking Cam earlier in the game as he benefited from a missed blocking assignment."

    Yep...I saw that and didn't care for it.

    "Rather, I suggest we ask the true professionals - the intellectually mature - like Greg Olsen. Someone who doesn't do the dancing thing, but is not so shallow to think it's a bad thing."

    I read what Olsen had to say and let's be honest about it. Olsen and the others are not going to publicly criticize their QB, even if they had an issue with it. Given the smack talk that occurs every Sunday, and given the comments that are directed at Cam, plus the stuff Olsen addressed, as players, the consensus may be that they really don't care what he does after a score. And Olsen certainly doesn't want to tick the guy off who throws him the ball on Sundays.

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 18, 7:11 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    "Case in point; "Cam should start focusing on that QBR, 31st in the NFL". He is, without a doubt, a top 5 QB in the NFL. That doesn't mean he will have gaudy stats in the traditional QB categories. It means he is something we've never seen before."

    There is always room for improvement. With that said, if the season ended today, I stand by an earlier comment in which I posted that he should be MVP. There is more than one way to win a ball game and he's proven that. The Panther's are definitely taking advantage of his skills on offense, but ya have to wonder how that is going to impact him physically in the future.

    "In the same breath, you mention "solid rushing attack"; well, Cam is the second leading rusher on the team and has scored the most rushing TD's."

    Well aware of that as he's going for 4.5 ypc with 6 TDs - pretty strong. Just as important, he's also made some clutch passes late in games.

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 18, 7:01 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    "Your shifting the argument to QBR shows you're reaching."

    Negative! Just pointing out that he should focus on improving his QBR, as well as his comp. %. The numbers don't lie, Mitt. Are you suggesting that he has no room for improvement?
    His rating is what it is. But hey, winning cures all ills....losing exposes them. For now, they're good. Just an fyi, Mitt....ALL players have things they can improve upon, no matter how well they're performing, & no matter how good they think they are.

    "I've noticed you finally giving Cam some of his due respect this year, but you're still stuck on worrying about some of the wrong things. Whether it be the benign dancing or ESPN's made up stat of QBR."

    Selective are we? Pretty sure I've given him credit in the past based on some of the things he was doing individually. Mitt, it's no secret he rubbed folks the wrong way his first couple of seasons in Charlotte. Is what it is. Besides, he's playing well now & they're winning ball games.

  • bishopdiamond5 Nov 18, 6:44 p.m.
    Towel Boy

    "I wonder if Cam would dance back during the Lambert, Mean Joe, LT, Deacon Jones, Butkus, Lott, days? Football was so different during the good ole days." Toddler

    The guys you id'd wouldn't go for that stuff. In fact, I have a pretty good idea as to how #42 might have reacted in SF, and it wouldn't have been good. Then again, he was one of the most feared players to ever play the game. Times have changed.... lol

  • mittnfriends Nov 18, 2:59 p.m.

    "i believe folks might look at this topic differently if the panthers were 4-5"

    Bishop and Todd know all too well that you're not talking to one of those folks.

  • mittnfriends Nov 18, 2:47 p.m.

    "But hey, don't take my word it. Ask the Titans players, coaches, and fans".

    Yes, we should ask the Titans player who actually confronted Cam during said incident. The same player had no problem doing a jig after merely sacking Cam earlier in the game as he benefited from a missed blocking assignment.

    Rather, I suggest we ask the true professionals - the intellectually mature - like Greg Olsen. Someone who doesn't do the dancing thing, but is not so shallow to think it's a bad thing.

    Here's a recap of Olsen's take on Cam's dancing and the criticism he receives. "At the end of the day, how many guys are having their number called at QB to run Q-Power on the 1 yard line and take on the entire defense and sellout physically and throw his body against linebackers and 300-pound D-linemen to score and put the game away. The guy is doing things that no other QB in the league can physically and - I would argue - would mentally want to handle".

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