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UNC vs. NCSU: A Tale Of Two Phils

Feb 26, 2003

RALEIGH, N.C. — When it comes to college rivalries, the one between North Carolina State University and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill is one of the fiercest.

For a pair of former players, their friendship overshadowed the games themselves. Tar Heel Phil Ford and the Wolfpack's Phil Spence talk about their connection off the court.

Former UNC star Ford now wears a microphone while former N.C. State star Spence calls strategy from the bench at North Carolina Central. Ask the two Phils about the ACC's top rivalry when they played in the 1970s and they do not mention "that school" in west Durham.

"As far as state people are concerned, Carolina is the rival. They don't care if you lose some games. Just don't lose to Carolina," Spence said.

"They had beaten Carolina seven or eight straight times. Our main rival was N.C. State at that time," according to Ford.

No doubt Carolina fans still see red when N.C. State comes calling. As for State fans, legend has it when the Russian national team visited Chapel Hill, some Wolfpackers pulled for Russia!

The deep passion on each side even runs hot during the offseason. Recruiting battles go back 30 years when Carolina's Phil nearly chose N.C. State.

"I became great friends with a lot of those players," Ford said. "I thought very highly of coach Sloan and coach Biedenbach. I just thought on the whole North Carolina would be better for me."

N.C. State's Phil looked at Carolina.

"Matter of fact, North Carolina had helped me enroll at Vincennes Junior College. I was going to be the next Bob McAdoo. But when it came time to decide, I thought N.C. State would be a better place for me," Spence said.

The Phils played in the days of grainy film and dimly lit arenas -- long before new technology put ACC basketball in every household every night.

Spence helped N.C. State win its first national championship in 1974. Ford carried the Tar Heels nearly as far announcing his presence one Saturday in Reynolds Coliseum in 1975. The freshman became one of the first to score on a 360 degree move.

"I think it was Monte Towe that was behind me trying to draw a charge. I just made the move to go the other way around him instinctively," Ford said.

"I'd seen Phil's moves. I had played against him in high school," Spence said with a laugh.

"Luckily it went in. I would have hated to go over to the bench if it didn't go in," Ford said.

"The moves he made -- you just had to say 'Let's shake it off and try to win this ballgame," Spence said.

When the Tar Heels dethroned the Wolfpack as ACC champs, the rivalry between the schools grew more intense. Yet the friendship of the Phils grew stronger.

"He was a good player and I wish he had gone to Carolina. We've been friends for a long time. Our families go back pretty far," Ford said.

"Phil was kind of like my little brother," said Spence. "We became great friends and have kept in touch through the years. When important things happen in my life, I call Phil as well."

As State and Carolina fans clamor for another victory over the other school, Ford and Spence will dwell not on the hostilities between fans but on the friendships among former players.

Ford calls Mitch Kupchak, Walter Davis, Tom Lagarde and John Kuester great friends.

"I was friends with David Thompson, Phil Spence, Monte Towe and Mo Rivers. Those guys would come to Chapel Hill and play some," Spence said.

"We say all this stuff about the rivalry, but it's really just one big brotherhood," said.

Spence said he has great memories on the court. Which memory regarding this rivalry is most special to him?

"It would probably be the relationship I have with coach Smith. We have stayed in close touch through the years. When I wanted to get into high school coaching, I even used him as a reference, Spence said.

Spence still says "we" when he talks about N.C. State. His enduring friendships with Ford, and Dean Smith, the coach whom he turned down so long ago, say more about human potential than any jump shot ever could.