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Why do ABCers have such a hard time admitting who is the best?

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  • Fenrir Dec 5, 2012
    Veteran

    OK, I will admit it... UNC is the best at CHEATING!!!

  • randythorntonv3 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    This is where you argument goes to shyt little boy.

    I agree with posters premise but you have to disagree because it blows p your argument more than you on Franklin street on a Saturday night.

    Ucla is certainly not the best program of all time.

  • randythorntonv3 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    You being wrong doesn't hurt me at all silly girl.

  • unbiasedaccfan Dec 5, 2012
    Veteran

    To me "best program" refers to Ncaa titles, tournament appearances, final fours, conference titles, graduation rates, and Ncaa cleanliness. I personally don't put much weight to what happened prior to the 64-team field. Ucla had to beat long beach state and pepperdine to be in the final four. Since the beginning of the 64-team field, duke and Unc are the top 2 in my book and both sides would have great arguments.

  • Unc r Hypocrits Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    How sad it is that a fan has to go on a sports blog, beg for his university's validation from opposing fans, just to make himself feel better. SMH

  • The Texas Butler Dec 5, 2012
    Veteran

    UNC and Roy are tainted with fraud so you can't really count anything athletically for the last 10 years. Duke is just so clean and successful that it's not close really. Just my opinion but I hate cheating

  • chapelthrillv2 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Yeah, 43 is way too low for NC State. Easily a top 25 program when you consider that they have more national titles than most other schools.

  • chapelthrillv2 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    I would say so. Hard to argue with their numbers. I think other things should be factored in as well (wins, for starters), but I think national titles should carry the most weight since that is what everyone is shooting for at the end of the day.

  • Wolfpackalypse Now Dec 5, 2012
    All Star

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    No prob, man. I just don't see any other way to evaluate it. Using any standard other than NCAA championships brings too may variables and "soft factors" into play. That's why the ESPN "all-time rankings" that came out a few months ago puzzled me. I wasn't upset that UNC was #1 (or really "upset" at all), but I didn't see how a school with 11 NCs (UCLA, which I'm sure you know, but I'm an Aspie who has to clarify everything, lol) would not be #1! Also, NCSU was ranked #43 in that poll, when there are only ~13-14 schools with two or more NCs. Using the most reliable system of ranking a program's "strength" based on its entire history, how could NCSU be any lower than #13 or #14?

  • unbiasedaccfan Dec 5, 2012
    Veteran

    Since this is a fairly rediculous discussion already, we'll make it even more so. An earlier poster stated it should be based on National championships. Really? Is UCLA the greatest program of all time? I think not.

  • BeastOnTheHill Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

    didn't dook have a basketball team before the 64 team change?

    again, it doesn't fit your GOAL so you have to slice it until it does.

    UNC has the better program and there's really not any doubt about it at this point.

    OUCH! sorry, I know that hurts.

  • chapelthrillv2 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    I'm the only one who uses the all-time analysis?

    LOL!

    Sorry, paula, but you'd be wrong again. Just google "best college basketball programs of all time" and get back to us.

  • chapelthrillv2 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    Finally! A reasonable fan jumps in.

    Like I said, it shouldn't be that difficult. I can't stand Coach K, but I recognize that when he retires he'll go down as a better coach than Roy because the rings don't lie.

    Thanks for being a voice of reason, Wolfpackalypse!

  • randythorntonv3 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    Actually I was just bringing up an arbitrary time frame to make a point. Let's go back to the modern 64 team era if you like. Still the same, Duke is the better program.

    You seem to be the only one on here who uses this analysis. I have even seen UNC fans disagree with you.

    Sounds like a YOU problem.

  • BeastOnTheHill Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    CORRECT. But that don't work out to good for the dook boys so they need the time spans. it's the only they can justify the argument. Other than that, they would be saying how much they wanted to be at least equal to the UNC program one day in the future.

  • Wolfpackalypse Now Dec 5, 2012
    All Star

    What criteria are we using to determine which school has the "best" basketball program? In my opinion, NCAA championships trump everything else. Therefore, I will readily admit in looking at the entirety of its history, UNC has the best basketball program in the ACC, because they have five NCAA championships. Duke is second with four. NC State and Louisville are tied at third in the conference with two, leaving Syracuse (and formerly Maryland) as the only other ACC school with an NCAA championship at one.

    I really don't buy into all the "'oh, but we've had x# of Final Fours,' 'we were regular season champions in year #,' 'our series record is #-#-#,' blah, blah, blah... " If we're going to use a rigid standard for determining the overall quality of a school's basketball program throughout its entire history, show me the rings.

  • chapelthrillv2 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    Like I said, you can pick any arbitrary date to make your program look better. That's why arbitrary dates are meaningless in this discussion.

    You seem to be level-headed, so I'll ask you: UNC or Duke...all-time, which program has been more successful?

  • unbiasedaccfan Dec 5, 2012
    Veteran

    UNC has had a great program for a long time. Certainly one of the top 5 all-time. Duke, however, has had a better overall program since the mid 80's. And yes you can check records, ACC Titles NCAA Tiles, etc. But as a UNC fan, that SHOULD be your belief, just as State fans and Duke fans believe their program is best. But don't believe your above Duke for the last 25 years - you probably believe the basketball won't be implicated in the cheating scandal either.

  • chapelthrillv2 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    And since 2005 UNC has been the better program. And since 2010 Duke has been the better program. That's why arbitrary dates are useless, you can pick and choose whatever span of time makes your argument the best. And that is why using the all-time success of each program is the only way to compare them.

  • randythorntonv3 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Oh man ,you are too funny.

    As I said I disagree. Programs evolve over time and over the last 12 years, since 2000 Duke has been the better program.

  • chapelthrillv2 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Basketball, for starters.

  • chapelthrillv2 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Not the best team this year. We'll be the best program unless/until someone can catch up, though.

  • randythorntonv3 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    Not the best this year.

  • unbiasedaccfan Dec 5, 2012
    Veteran

    Really?!?!? BEst at what? Deflection?

  • chapelthrillv2 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Nope, I'm perfectly happy rooting for the best program in the ACC. You know, Carolina.

  • randythorntonv3 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    Another deflection. Are you looking for a new team to root for this year?

  • randythorntonv3 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    Deflection

  • 903 mens national championships Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    If they seeded the bracket today, Duke would be the #1 overall seed. That may change over the course of the season, but based on current resumes, Duke would get the best seed in the tourney.

  • chapelthrillv2 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Fun fact about Indiana...they also have five national titles. Which is one more than Dook has.

    Facts-r-fun!

  • chapelthrillv2 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    He has his team ranked ahead of Duke at this point.

  • randythorntonv3 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Dang boy, you just arent that bright.

    We are talking about UNCheat and Duke and you have to go and bring in Indiana.

    Duh, Duh, Duh, Duh, flection.

  • 903 mens national championships Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    How has Crean had a better year than Coach K? All he's done is beaten a bunch of cupcakes (and Georgetown).

  • chapelthrillv2 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Crean is having a better year than K at the moment. Ergo, Crean is a better coach, according to your logic.

  • kmor2012 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    i said earlier he should be put on suicide watch with DSV and the boys.....

  • rx74u2nv Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Called this weeks ago

    UNC fans, in attempts to avoid basketball season, will try and become history professors.

    This is exactly what happened in 2010

  • randythorntonv3 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    No kidding. I think he is out there on the ledge swinging one foot off at a time.

  • randythorntonv3 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Huh, what does Indiana have to do with Duke and UNCheat.

    Deflection alert.

  • kmor2012 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    you guys are taking this year pretty tough eh?

    Dont worry there is still time

  • chapelthrillv2 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    So, the greatest coach in college basketball right now is Tom Crean?

    Must suck for you having four national titles and still being the second best basketball program in your own area code.

    But those are just facts. And facts, as we all know, are fun.

  • chapelthrillv2 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

    Here's something current:

    How many national championship banners adorn Cameron Indoor Stadium? And how many adorn the Dean Dome?

    Like I said, Dookies know that they are second best in the ACC. There is just some sort of mental block that prevents them from acknowledging it.

  • randythorntonv3 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    Actually this year, Duke is better, and that is all that matters right now.

    Sucks for you that your team is having difficulty competing this year and you have to bring up your tired old program talk again and again.

    Just like you did after you gagged on the preseason #1 talk last year at the end of the year.

  • 903 mens national championships Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    I care more about Butler than 1957. So does Roy.

  • chapelthrillv2 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Its all they have, Ligg. Pathetic. They are just bitter because they know UNC is better, they know all of the facts and experts support this opinion, and they don't know what else to say.

  • chapelthrillv2 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    Ahhh...the artibrary date bandit strikes again.

    We're talking about best programs of all time. Please step aside...we all know that Duke is ashamed of its basketball history. Feel free to start your own thread.

  • kmor2012 Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    2005 and 2009 are ok.....for the time being******

  • BeastOnTheHill Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    2009 is ok by you? thanks!

  • MoDuke v2 is gone Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    Good thing it wasn't a mid-major. You guys haven't fared to well against them lately. :)

  • BeastOnTheHill Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    no where near 80 but I can see on video it and read about it IN THE RECORD BOOKS!!!! It is still to this day a classic battle.

  • BeastOnTheHill Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread

    OK, so now we are gettingt somewhere. you are a young boy and don't remember this but UNC beat Kansas and Wilt the stilt in 3 ot's to win it. It was not a game against a mid-major. it was a real basketball game and it is in the records.

    but, if it helps you to sleep at night in you lil race car bed so it's ok by me.

  • 903 mens national championships Dec 5, 2012
    Sports Legend

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    If you're 80 years old and can remember how great that 1957 team was, so be it. The rest of us don't remember it because we're not that old.

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