B1G Offers UNC

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  • 903 mens national championships Feb 23, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    I'm just trying to understand all of this myself since the economics of college sports appears to be in desperate need of a correction when conferences are more interested in GA Tech than Duke. I'm glad Ken is here with his knowledge on the topic.

  • VT1994Hokie Feb 23, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    Good stuff 903. Am still learning on here.

  • Ken D. Feb 23, 2013
    Sports Legend

    There is no question that basketball in general, and Duke in particular, bring some value to the table. In the past 20 years, Duke has made it to the Final Four five times. If you take Forbes analysis at face value, that adds about $2.4 million a year to league revenues - assuming that their getting that far doesn't keep a different B1G school from doing so. Let's be generous and say that Duke's performance would bring in $5 million a year.

    The bigger question is whether they bring more value to the other members of a conference than the cost of dividing the total pie by one more slice. The economics of the ACC, if Duke were not already a member, might say it does. But the economics of the B1G, IMO, say no. It will cost the other B1G members about $25 million a year to share with Duke. Duke might help bragging rights more than the pocketbooks of current members. The fact that the B1G has shown more interest in Virginia and Georgia Tech than in Duke suggests their members agree with me.

    Another element in the equation is whether Duke adds value all by itself - over and above what Carolina would deliver by itself. If Carolina's presence would already deliver a substantial part of the North Carolina market, how much more could be attributed to also adding Duke?

  • 903 mens national championships Feb 23, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    Basketball TV revenue? Tournament appearance revenue?

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2012/03/14/march-madness-a-trip-to-the-final-four-is-worth-9-5-million/

  • Lux Libertas Feb 23, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    Everybody does it?
    "
    As in, "beats state college?"

    History agrees with you.

  • TsKaMF Feb 23, 2013
    Sports Legend

    That way they will have multiple schools that are currently on NCAA probation in FB. It backs-up the "everybody does it" claim.

  • Ken D. Feb 23, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    Basketball attendance is an insignificant factor. Most B1G schools already sell out most of their league home games. The few that don't aren't going to get much of a boost because they are lousy teams about to get a beatdown. There's a reason their fans don't want to watch them play.

    The aggregate additional ticket revenue, for all B1G schools combined, would be well south of $500,000 a year. That's pocket change in conference realignment terms.

    The fact remains that, as of today, UVa appears to be the only ACC school that has actually gotten a (tentative) invite. If the B1G wants a regional partner for them, they already have Maryland. If they don't want Carolina as their 16th member, I wouldn't rule out Missouri. They are one of the few SEC schools that would probably prefer to be in the B1G. Since they were snubbed before, their pride could be a barrier this time around.

  • 903 mens national championships Feb 22, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    I would think any conference has to factor in that adding Duke would add quite a bit to the conference in basketball. Whenever Duke plays on the road, it's an automatic sellout regardless of the size of the venue. And Big Ten venues are mostly larger than ACC venues. Duke basketball also adds to the value of conference's TV deal.

  • Ken D. Feb 22, 2013
    Sports Legend

    Duke's value to Duke isn't solely defined by football. But I suspect its value to the B1G is. Duke generates huge amounts of revenue from basketball that isn't shared with its conference. It would probably generate a little more TV revenue for the B1G, but not enough to pay for itself.

  • 903 mens national championships Feb 22, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    I expect some smaller schools like Wake and Duke could get left out in the cold as a result of this. Those 64 odd schools are already getting the lion's share of the pie - close to 80% - so I don't think you'd see much change there.Does Duke's value really only solely get defined by football?

    According to this recent article, Duke's athletic dept revenue is slightly lower than UNC and is 4th in the ACC.

    http://blogs.newsobserver.com/statenow/florida-state-virginia-lead-acc-in-athletic-department-revenueTOTAL REVENUES
    Florida State - 81,444,039
    Virginia - 81,321,219
    North Carolina - 78,830,350
    Duke - 78,604,895
    Clemson - 66,988,424
    Boston College - 66,197,029 N.C. State - 65,507,243 Virginia Tech - 64,801,681 Maryland - 62,612,370 Miami - 62,099,601 Georgia Tech - 60,253,966 Wake Forest - 48,776,185

  • Lux Libertas Feb 22, 2013
    Sports Legend

    The rest of us are! LOL! The state college "delusion-o-meter" just went off the charts roflOLOL

  • KT Returns Feb 22, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    If you want to worship a guy who has ralph wiggum as his avatar, you go right ahead. The rest of us will converse with credible people.

  • Constitutional-Defender Feb 22, 2013
    All Star

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    As usual, Big Wade puts the hammer down. A true backhand to the packers. And I do mean a real knuckle scraper to the side of the face!

  • flairrick Feb 22, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    You mean like the Twins?

  • Ken D. Feb 22, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    I think the B1G would like to be able to schedule many of its early season baseball games in Maryland, Virginia and North Carolina instead of Minnesota, Michigan and Wisconsin.

  • Ken D. Feb 22, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    South Carolina was just an average team in the ACC. It has taken them a while to emerge as a contender in the SEC, but they (and Vandy) have shown that it's possible, just as Northwestern has in the B1G. Being in an SEC east with Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Virginia Tech, Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida, State would be no less competitive in a few years than they are now in the ACC Atlantic division IMO. The SEC brand is a powerful recruiting tool in football.

    As to how likely it is the SEC would invite State, I believe they would like to pick up two eastern teams, allowing them to place Missouri in the west where they belong. I agree with bmpayne812 on that point.

  • flairrick Feb 22, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    So you think your football program would have success in the Big 10. Oh, and how about baseball. I bet the boys of spring and summer would really look forward to going to Wisconsin and Minny in March.

  • BeastOfTheHill Feb 22, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    I'm not laughing at them being in the sec, just at what level of success they would have in the sec.

    ZERO!

  • Ken D. Feb 22, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    Actually, jgunn, I expect you would have three or four super conferences, because I think the Big XII would have little choice but to target the remaining plums from the ACC. The PAC may or may not follow suit, just because there are few attractive teams left west of the Rockies.

    At the end of the day, I think you would have roughly the same number of schools as the six BCS conferences had two years ago, but they would be compressed into only four conferences. The size of the pie is the 64 or so schools, not the four (or six) conferences. I expect some smaller schools like Wake and Duke could get left out in the cold as a result of this. Those 64 odd schools are already getting the lion's share of the pie - close to 80% - so I don't think you'd see much change there.

    The $64 question in my mind is whether moves like this, along with growing dissatisfaction with the NCAA, could lead to the breakup of that institution.

    As for your comment about whether this is good for UNC, State or their fans - I don't think any of us can predict that. It will certainly be very different, and the nature of any new rivalries that may form will be nothing like the Tobacco Road rivalry. Frankly, my personal opinion is that it would be great for State, a little less so for Carolina. (It would suk for Wake and Duke)

    Carolina would be a southern school in a northern conference. State would not just be in a southern conference, it would be in the dominant conference, football wise. Sometimes I think being in the same conference as UNC holds State back. Older brothers and younger brothers will always compete with each other. But the younger brother will always be the younger brother. As a younger brother myself, I know I didn't always want to play in the same sandbox as my big brother. I think we were both better off for going in different directions.

  • wmarti Feb 22, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    You might be right but if State is just an average team now in the ACC... they will likely be sliding into the role of whipping post formerly played by Vandy and such.

  • Lux Libertas Feb 22, 2013
    Sports Legend

    Yeah...we bet it is!

    Fewer beatings that way LOL

  • Leave it to Beaver Reruns Feb 21, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    that is exactly where they land if the ACC implodes. You think there is no way, but is it the logical move for the SEC to make.

  • StunGunn Feb 21, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    You'd miss Carolina if they weren't in the ACC.

  • StunGunn Feb 21, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    Ken, if those moves you mentioned were to take place, we'd have two super conferences. ESPN wouldn't get additional eyeballs, but the SEC and B1G sure would. the same pie just gets divided into different slices. I don't see where this would be good for UNC or any of the other ACC schools that might be lured away. I'm probably wearing blinders because I like the ACC and want it to keep the current schools. I don't see where this would be good for schools like UNC and State, nor their fans.

  • BeastOfTheHill Feb 21, 2013
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    LOL, nc state in the sec. LOL!

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again01 Feb 21, 2013
    Sports Legend

    I'm not reading through the first nine pages of comments to see if anyone has already written this, but I would suspect that Carolina is sitting on this offer and waiting to see if the ACC implodes. This offer is their lifeboat (if they need one).

    I say go. If State remains in a UNC-less ACC, that's fine with me. Or maybe we head to the SEC. Either way works for me.

  • Wolfpackindahizzy4shizzy Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    Poor thing couldn't "think" her way out of a wet paper bag.

    Even if u spotted her 50 IQ pts, essentially doubling what her parents gave her to work with :)

  • Leave it to Beaver Reruns Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    I don't think the B1G would want Duke. They really do not offer anything other than appeasing UNC for making the jump.

    A few on here think none of this will happen, and I hope they are right. But, I do not think we have seen the end of the conference realignment yet.

    I will be ACC till the day I die or it dies.

  • Dr. Pwnt Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    You obviously don't get it, do you? The ignorance is truly awe inspiring.

  • The Honorable JacobSummers Feb 20, 2013
    All Star

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    Unc basketball more profitable than state football. Now if that dont stiiiiiiiiing what does? Rofl!

  • Wolfpackindahizzy4shizzy Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

    ^^^^ correct.
    The big X couldn't care less about women's field hockey or soccer.

    Football is EVERYTHING, period. Exclamation point!

  • 35 - 7 ROFL Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    Nope. No offense, but you're completely off base on these realignment issues.

  • chapelthrillv2 Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    If UNC goes to the B1G, I could see Duke joining in a package deal. Landing both schools would be a home run for the B1G, as Duke (like UNC) consistently has an excellent athletic department, has a very recognizable brand, and is one of the best schools (private or public) in the entire country.

  • Leave it to Beaver Reruns Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    The B1G is salivating at the possibility of landing UNC for all the reasons you mentioned. They have to decide if they want to part ways with the ACC, but most of all Duke. The ACC will either survive all of this, or they won't. If they do not, my Blue Devils will be on the outside looking in. UNC will be what keeps the ACC alive and kicking in my opinion.

  • Wolfpackindahizzy4shizzy Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    At least that billboard wouldn't be a LIE :)

  • Wolfpackindahizzy4shizzy Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    Lol
    U talking into a mirror, pansy??

    :)

  • chapelthrillv2 Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    Yup. At the end of the day, no one will care that State was finally able to break its 13-game losing streak to UNC in 2013. No one hangs banners for that. Well, I take that back....State might hang a banner for it, given that it is your biggest basketball accomplishment in 30 years.

  • chapelthrillv2 Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    Very true.

  • BeastOfTheHill Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    Saturday is coming, you better hide now.

  • BeastOfTheHill Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

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    if we started listing all the accolades that UNC basketball has and ncsuX does not have, we would be here all day & night!

  • Wolfpackindahizzy4shizzy Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

    Lol, so history is more relevant than the present season???

    Lmbao @ the pansies

  • chapelthrillv2 Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

    5>2...more significant :)

  • Wolfpackindahizzy4shizzy Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

    91-83
    Most recent and relative :)

  • chapelthrillv2 Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

    I love facts...I particularly love 5>2...that is a great one. :)

  • Wolfpackindahizzy4shizzy Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    Lol
    Further proof that pansies hate facts.

    It's never ending with these poor girls :)

    Fun as hades to watch!

  • Wolfpackindahizzy4shizzy Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    Who's bragging, pansy?? When did "stating that which is factual" become "bragging"??
    You poor lil "hurt by facts", thing.

    Chin up, pillow muncher :)

  • Ken D. Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

    If the B1G were to add UNC and Virginia, they would have the major state universities of 13 states that have a population equal to one third of the US. If the SEC were to counter by adding VT and NC State, they would have as many states, and slightly more population. Between those two conferences alone, they would represent half of the states on the US mainland, and 62% of its population.

    That is why this could happen. That's a lot of eyeballs for ESPN.

  • KT Returns Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    How does this have ANYTHING to do with the fact that kerlina's football can't keep up with the other B1G teams in revenue?

    Answer: it doesn't. Keep deflecting. The Orange County Remedial College way.

  • chapelthrillv2 Feb 20, 2013
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    Sad that this was supposed to be the best team State has had in 30 years, and all they can brag about now is being tied with a rebuilding UNC team in the ACC standings.

  • The Honorable JacobSummers Feb 20, 2013
    All Star

    View quoted thread


    I guess I'd be bragging about an equal 8-5 record too if youve accomplished as little as state has in the last quarter CENTURY.

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